I never found any value in the ruler trick for plane irons

[Brian Holcombe]

“To remove the wire edge”

Nowhere in old documentation is mentioned that a new tool should be flattened, and on old tools we don’t often find the evidence.

In the end it’s all interpretation. I understand the term “flat face of the iron” as oposed to the beveled face. Not that the author neccessarily means a mirror.

The way I read it, he seems to suggest that there is some work going on there. He says both surfaces should be keen, which in my opinion suggests a bit of work being applied to the back rather than simply wiping off the wire edge.

This is consistent with my experience, I don't spend a lot of time on the back but I do so with a flat stone and after enough times the iron is extremely flat and the wire edge removes nicely.

I'll be frank in that I see this as the easiest approach, it pays considerable dividends in that efforts are not continuously needed to repaid damage or chase off the wire edge with continued rounding. I'm not using anything that wouldn't have been available to an 18th century craftsman for that part of the work.

[Kees Heiden]

Yeah, I don't advocate sloppy sharpening. I am a compulsive back flattener too. But I am also a curious guy, so I start to wonder when:

- I never find an old tool with any sign of back flattening. They are always convex with deeply dubbed corners.
- The backs of the Seaton chest tools are a mixed bunch too.
- Nicholson doesn't even mention the back in his article on sharpening.
- I saw demonstrations of old guys sharpening just the bevel and ripping of the wire edge in a block of wood.
- I read the same trick in Holtzappfl (Allthough he indeed also dutifully says to work the bevel and the back)

In the end I take the hint that the wear bevel on the back isn't the most terrible thing. Sharpen the bevel, get somehow rid of the wire edge and you have a decent edge. More work on the back is a refinement.

But I also realise that this is all interpretation.

[Tony Zaffuto]

Are us mostly hobbyists complicating this whole matter? As these were jobs, did the old timers have many tools, with maybe a couple of bench chisels for general benchwork, that didn't need much more than quick honing, and a few much finer tools, think a dovetail chisel, that he/she would pay closer attention to? How about paring chisels? Long, thin and low bevel? Maybe a couple of licks behind the bevel, to keep the last 1/2" flat only? Afterall, paring chisels are a bit flexible.

[Kees Heiden]

Sounds reasonable.

[Chris Parks]

I read a story I don't know how many years ago documenting the limitations of sharpening edge tools in the UK in times past because of the limitations of the sharpening stones and media that was available to them and how it all changed when different media became available. I think in discussions of the past in threads like this those limitations are either not known or glossed over. I wish I could find it again but I can't remember if it was a magazine, a book or on the net. From memory a lot of the time they put up with what they could achieve and not what they would have liked.

[Kees Heiden]

They did have reasonable stones, like the local slate (Idwal for example), or imported stones like the Turkey stone. They also had grinding stones, flat or rotating, made from sandstone. But as soon as Arkansas and Washita came on the market, these almost completely took over, because those worked quite a bit quicker.

So I don't think they were really limited by the stones they had, it just took more time to raise a wire edge.

[steven c newman]

There WAS a video put out not that long ago, Kees may have posted it....About a little shop in France?....where they were making wood-bodied planes.....came time to sharpen an iron to use in the plane...first a grinder was used..then ( HORRORS ) a SINGLE oil stone was used. Then the iron was put to use IN the new plane, and thin wispy ribbons came up out of the plane.

Might be worth the effort to find that video, again?

[Simon MacGowen]

Are us mostly hobbyists complicating this whole matter?

Not just this sharpening matter but many others like round vs flat mallets, bench chisels vs mortising chisels (for mortising), bevel up vs bevel down planes, etc.

Hobbyists are not the only ones to blame; the vendors and manufacturers all take part in complicating things knowingly or unknowingly. Well, at least some of them see product and sales opportunities in the complication process.

Simon

[Jim Koepke]

Well, at least some of them see product and sales opportunities in the complication process.

Of course, how many of us have more than one smoothing plane of the same size simply because we can?

How much of our "flat back" society is built upon more recent theory?

The big obvious elephant in the room none have pointed out is the geometry of the Japanese chisel. With a hollow back it kind of demonstrates one doesn't need a perfectly flat back to do fine work.

After this we can argue about how many angels can dance on the edge of a smoothing iron. Will it technically be more if one cambers the blade?

jtk

[Simon MacGowen]

After this we can argue about how many angels can dance on the edge of a smoothing iron. Will it technically be more if one cambers the blade?

jtk

Or does it matter if the edge, cambered or not, is made of blue steel, white steel, o1, a2, or pmv11?!

Simon

[Jim Koepke]

Or does it matter if the edge, cambered or not, is made of blue steel, white steel, o1, a2, or pmv11?!

Simon

Would there be advertising slogans like "More Angels can balance longer on an A2 edge than any other"?

jtk

- Angels put the A in A2

[steven c newman]

As a side note to the above video...it also showed both Gentlemen in the shop, using their shoulders to push their chisels. Mainly to pare away the waste where the irons will go,,after chopping most of it out.
Can't remember which type of mallet they used, though.....

[Simon MacGowen]

Would there be advertising slogans like "More Angels can balance longer on an A2 edge than any other"?

jtk

- Angels put the A in A2

"More Angels can balance longer on an A2 edge than any other...especially if you hone the edge with [fill in the vendor's product name]. 75,301 woodworkers who have tried it can't be wrong!"

Simon

[James Pallas]

Can't have many angels on an A 2 edge. Too many chips, no place for their feet.
Jim

[James Pallas]

I would suggest that you can read pages 58 and 59 of The Complete Woodworker, by Bernard E. Jones. It describes sharpening on the bevel, removing the wire edge by pulling the iron flat on the stone to remove the wire edge and using a strop to remove any remaining wire edge.
Jim