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Thread: School me on airless sprayers..........

  1. #16
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    13 might be a little big for a 3, but it should spray okay. Pressure with my 310 didn't need to be moved at all for a 514-both FFLP. Start at a little over half the pressure you used before, and it might take a little more to get rid of any hard lines on the edges of the fan. They lay down, a beautifully light fan of spray, with almost no bounceback/overspray.

    For those that don't know, watching from the sidelines, the first number in an airless tip size is half the width of the fan at 12", and the second two numbers are the size of the orifice. The orifice is made from carbide, and lasts maybe through 50 gallons of spray. For a smaller fan, you need a smaller orifice, to spray the same material, because the narrower fan doesn't demand the same volume of paint as a wider fan-the reason I said a 13 (orifice) might be a little large for a 3 (6" fan width). You can use almost any combination, but it makes a difference in coverage, and how fast you have to move the gun.

    To spray cabinets with an airless, you used to need to get your adrenaline up like you were getting ready to run a football play. The FF (fine finish) tips eased that off a Lot, and now add the LP (low pressure) to that, and it makes it a real pleasure to use, without the demand for adrenaline.

  2. #17
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    Justin, I remembered that I forgot to say to make sure you have a clean screen in your gun before using the LP tips. You can't get away with one that's not, like you can when you're using high pressure.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom M King View Post
    Justin, I remembered that I forgot to say to make sure you have a clean screen in your gun before using the LP tips. You can't get away with one that's not, like you can when you're using high pressure.
    I clean everything completely after every use. The only thing on my system that's dirty is the hose exterior. I attribute this habit to my Navy aviation days as a painter when we had put the guns up looking like new or get our butts chewed out.

    I always rinse and my screens and use a pipe brush to get them like new then blow them out with air.

    Latex paints I use a 60 mesh and WB polys (and future use of lacquers) I use the 100 mesh.
    -Lud

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Edgerton View Post
    This is why we need a pro corner. I posted it in General so a few pros would see it, the only people that would use such an animal, but now its lost in no mans land.

    Thanks Tom and Wayne for your observations. I have a friend that uses one exclusively, but he makes log furniture and only uses one finish. How hard are they to clean between finishes? I looked at the hand helds, but they look pretty clumsy to me.

    Thanks, Larry
    Larry, i would like to see a pro corner as well. I spend most my online time here on SMC but I also spend time reading the pro finishing forum (along with the cabinet making forum) over at woodweb. I am I guess what you can call an avvid enthusiast when it comes to wood working and own a Graco AAA. Since I don’t do this professional a lot of the posts on woodweb are unrelated but there is a lot of good information there on other finishing vendors and techniques I like. I don’t think I am allowed to post other forum links so if you cannot find the forum hit me up on PM.

  5. #20
    I bought a graco x17 for painting my cabinets. I "played" with the sprayer A LOT before actual use on my cabinets. They move quite a bit of paint. I used SW Pro Classic. I bought a FFLP 312 tip for the job. I used a bigger regular 514 for my ceilings and latex paint. I tried the 514 with the SWPC on test material and the results were ... not good.

    In between coats I just dropped the gun a pail of mineral spirits. When storing, I would flush the system with lost of mineral spirits. Then I pumped spirits back into the machine for storage.

    Also (and I learned this after a clog) STRAIN YOUR PAINT. I added a little penetrol to the paint before straining. I don't know if that helped, because I never sprayed without it.

    I played with the pressure to get it just right. IIRC, it was about 75%.

    Once I got a good technique down, it went really quick. I got really nice results.

    I am NOT a pro. Just a guy who wanted to paint his cabinets.

  6. #21
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    I recently did a whole room with Satin Pro Classic. It had so many windows in it that the owner decided it would be fine not to put so much time into masking, or cutting in. I used a FFLP 310 for the jamb extensions, and casing, and a FFLP 514 for the walls. I was just guessing when I ordered thos, since these were the first LP tips I've used, but believe I guessed right. The whole job came out great, and everyone who has seen it says they've never seen a better quality paint job in a house. The whole thing, including the cathedral ceiling looks like a nice cabinet job.

    One thing I did, that I will say is worth doing, for using LP tips, was to put a pressure gauge on the hose at the pump. The gauge is made by Titan, and has a colored zone for their LP tips. I was just a little above that zone, and the pressure was perfect, with a 1/4" 25 foot hose, for both tips, without any adjustment. The gauge lets you get in the ballpark to start with, without spraying a quart of paint to find the sweet spot. It seems like to me that LP tips take a very little over half the pressure required by regular tips, but I didn't do any testing-just the way it feels to me.

    I bought one of those Graco AAA rigs when they first came out, and sold my Apollo HVLP top of the line turbo rig after the first time I used it. Some time after that, Graco started selling the RacX tip guards that took the Fine Finish tips (originally designed and made for the AAA rigs) for regular airless. The first time I used one of them on the airless rig, I sold the AAA rig as soon as I could.

    I am a pro, but do so many things in addition to painting, that I don't do that much of it, so it had been a while since I had done any painting with the FF tips. In the meantime, Graco came out with the low pressure tips. This was the first time I had used them, and this ain't your Father's airless spraying any more. It's close to the same control you get with HVLP, but at multiple times the speed. The fan is amazingly soft, and controllable, with almost not bounceback. If I was spraying cabinets I made with it, I would still leave the backs off until after finishing though, but I did that with HVLP too.

    Back to add to Larry's original question, for someone like him, who is a pro, but new to airless, the only reason I can think of to get one of the bigger rigs is if you are going to spray wall surfacer with it, as well as regular painting, and finishing. Surfacer is a spray on Level 5 drywall finish that leaves a perfect surface. It requires that you move a LOT of material, because using the largest tip you can find, like a 721 or 725, the gun is held about 30 inches off the wall, and you can't hardly believe how thick you can lay it on. It makes a not quite right sheetrock wall into perfection. The cost of doing this is a substantial investment though, beyond the 150 bucks per 5 gallons for the surfacer.

    Don't try spraying surfacer with a smaller pump unless you at least can change out the pump balls to ceramic. Surfacer has an unbelieveable amount of solids, and will wear out a regular pump. I almost was talked into it for this room, but have sheetrock down to a science too (even though I hate it), so didn't really need the surfacer.

  7. #22
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    Aug 2013
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    I used my 310 for the first time this week. I'm using a Graco 495PC Pro airless rig with a 50' hose (I need to buy a 25' for my shop use). The 310 sprayed amazingly well and I was not blown away by the blow back and overspray. I shot ADVANCE semigloss on a cabinet (without the back) and a couple doors.

    Maybe its because I was using a 50' hose, but normal pressure for a FF 210 or 310 tip is 1900-2100 for my rig. I have an integrated pressure gauge. The FFLP 310 required 1300-1400 to shoot without getting "tails". The only thing I didn't like is that it sprayed a fan like a 210. I played with my distance off the face and couldn't get a 310 fan size and proper coat if I backed off far enough to get a normal 310FF tip fan.

    Tom,

    Have you noticed a difference in the fan sizes? It's possible (though unlikely) I have a mislabeled tip. Regardless, I love the tips and will be ordering a variety of sizes. I may even sell my Graco 9.5 HVLP.
    -Lud

  8. #23
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    I think you're right about the fan width. I didn't measure the width, and have thrown away the plastic I had over the windows in that room, which is where I tested the pressure before real spraying began. Pressure sounds about right too. I never took time to read the gauge exactly, and just started spraying once it was right. The correct pressure was right above the black colored zone (which is supposed to be right for Titan LP tips) in the Titan analog gauge.

    edited to add: Thinking more about it, I think maybe the FFLP tips are more accurate in width than the older tips. I think the older tips were more generous with the fan width, but the FFLP tips are probably closer to stated width. I don't think the 310 width was over 6 inches, but probably not much less. It worked fine for crown molding, jamb extensions, and casing.

    Last edited by Tom M King; 10-25-2018 at 8:08 AM.

  9. #24
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    Aug 2013
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    Thought I post some results of changing tips.

    I was initially spraying BM's ADVANCE with a 310 FFLP - took 12-1300 PSI and I was getting a 3-4 inch fan, not a 4-6 inch. After drying, I didn't have quite the dry film thickness I wanted for a single coat. I scuff sanded everything with an ultra fine gray 3M scotch-brite.

    I put a 313 FFLP tip in the gun. I only had to increase the pressure to 13-1400. I did achieve a 4-6" fan with no tails. It coated much better than the 310 tip - which is to be expected in hindsight because ADVANCE is quite viscous. I sprayed a cabinet that had both vertical and horizontal pieces and had no runs or sags after "criss-crossing" the spray pattern.

    For those that want as much info as possible:

    Graco 495 PC Pro Airless
    RAC X gun with 313 FFLP tip
    "60" mesh in the gun (clean)
    "60" mesh in the pump (clean)
    50 foot hose
    1300-1400 PSI setting
    1 tall and handsome guy spraying

    YMMV.
    -Lud

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