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Thread: Old Iron Help (12” Silvers Jointer)

  1. #16
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Crystal Lake, IL
    Posts
    577
    Clamshell heads are not dangerous because of the babbitt bearings. They are dangerous because their design relies on the clamping strength of bolts that stretch over time and use, allowing a just enough wiggle room to throw a blade. It's catastrophic when it happens. I've purchased a jointer that had this catastrophic failure, and I've read about quite a few others from my owwm brethren. You are absolutely right in wanting to change the clamshell head. They are simply dangerous, and if you've seen the carnage up close and personal, you wouldn't want to be in the building when one of these lets loose.

    Babbitt bearings are excellent bearings. I have several babbitt machines, and in my opinion, they are every bit as good, if not better, than top end ball bearings. If you maintain them properly with oil, they will last a century before wearing out. Repouring babbitt for a new cutterhead is not a big job, and a lot easier than it sounds. Plenty of good youtube video's on Keith Rucker's channel about pouring babbitt.

    Machining a head for a babbitt machine will cost more because there is more overall length involved, as a babbitt machine would incorporate an extra 6" or so, at each end, not found on a ball bearing machine. Like Dave said, the best way to not be surprised is to send photo's and proper measurements to the maker of your choice for price quotes.

    If it were mine, I'd machine a 4 knife straight head for that machine, restore it, and have a lifetime machine for the shop. I know, because I already have done this to 6 jointers. Great machines when they are set up right. The species of timber I work doesn't warrant the extra expense of a spiral head. YMMV. I paid $400 for my current 16" jointer. It was a train wreck, ready for the scrap yard. I resurrected it and now it's a perfect machine. Hard to beat 2000 lbs. of cast iron for stability in a jointer.
    Jeff

  2. #17
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    So Cal
    Posts
    3,737
    I would not add a Bryd Head it a Babbitt bearing jointer. Inserts with their 30 degree face bevel and slower speed of a Babbitt nope no way. The technology is too far apart.
    Two sharp straight knives is the way it's designed.
    Look for a two knife head with a 40 degree hook angle. The cutting circle needs to be the same.
    Too me it looks like your road is narrow
    Aj

  3. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Hughes View Post
    I would not add a Bryd Head it a Babbitt bearing jointer. Inserts with their 30 degree face bevel and slower speed of a Babbitt nope no way. The technology is too far apart.
    Two sharp straight knives is the way it's designed.
    Look for a two knife head with a 40 degree hook angle. The cutting circle needs to be the same.
    Too me it looks like your road is narrow
    Whats your opinion on a Tersa or Terminus head?
    from what i've read on Babbitt bearings is that they are designed for high speed high load applications (if you maintain your lubricant levels)
    if you run a babbitt too low it wont draw the oil into the cavity to lubricate your shaft
    please correct me if i've been mislead

  4. #19
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    So Cal
    Posts
    3,737
    I am against fixed cutters for a jointer.
    I like to have the freedom to set my jointer knifes to the out feed table. If the knives are fixed in the head that great and easy to replace. But now the tables across the width infeed and outfeed need to be in the same plane.
    some guys find it easy to make that adjustment to their machine. But not me I found it to be difficult.
    I thought Babbitt run slower.
    For you to compare my jointer runs at 3600 with a 5 inch cutting circle. I can easily tell when my knives are getting worn or if one is high after setting in new ones.
    Good luck looks like a great machine.
    Last edited by Andrew Hughes; 05-25-2018 at 5:48 PM.
    Aj

  5. #20
    I have an old Fay & Eagan 16" with babbet bearings about the same age. I had a machinist rework the square head to hold 4 modern knives with gib screws, Twice the cuts per revolution without spinning faster.

  6. #21
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Crystal Lake, IL
    Posts
    577
    Babbitt bearings can easily handle the speeds of modern cutterheads. They are not a slow speed bearing material. There are also different alloys of babbitt available.

    I personally believe in setting up a jointer correctly the first time, for all time. That means infeed and outfeed tables should be coplaner. Once this is done, it's not too difficult, with a .001 indicator, to get the cutterhead set parallel to the height of your outfeed table. If one side is low, it's pretty easy to cut the necessary shim stock thickness to fit under the low side and shim it up a tad. We're talking a few thousandth's of an inch, so not rocket science.

    Personally, I scraped the ways on my current jointer, as well as the bearing seats, to dead nuts. I know it's not for everybody, but it took a days work, and I've got a machine that does it's job and makes very flat sides on wood. Now, setting freshly sharpened knives is a snap. 30 to 45 minutes to swap out a set. I use this gauge, available from Northfield. Money well spent.

    Jeff

  7. #22
    I like the Fay and Egans. But more knives cut slower , I like two ,or three.

  8. #23
    My 30" Babbitt jointer runs at 3600 rpm, same as a direct drive machine.

    That head is not an Oliver clamshell. It looks to have thick knives, probably slotted. I wouldn't dismiss that head, I also wouldn't think twice about an insert head, know many guys running them in their Babbitt jointers, I have an insert head for my universal woodworker.

  9. #24
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Griswold Connecticut
    Posts
    6,926
    Quote Originally Posted by Bradley Gray View Post
    I have an old Fay & Eagan 16" with babbet bearings about the same age. I had a machinist rework the square head to hold 4 modern knives with gib screws, Twice the cuts per revolution without spinning faster.
    Bradley
    Could you please post a photo of the modifications?
    I have a 16" square head that I still haven't gotten around to restoring, and that sounds like a very useful modification.

    Thank You
    Mike
    "The first thing you need to know, will likely be the last thing you learn." (Unknown)

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