Old Iron Help (12” Silvers Jointer)

[Elliott Wilson]

Hi all
New to posting on SMC here and I’m desperately in need of advice
I LOVE old iron but sometimes I flush my money going after it
Someone in my area is selling a 1911 silvers manufacturing 12” jointer (3hp 1ph) for $275
It has a Babbitt and clamshell set up now and I’m hoping to replace with a Tersa head
It has the classic clamshell damage to the infeed table that has been patched but other than that seems to be in really great condition
So my question to all of you is
Is it worth it to spend $1200 on a new head and refurbish this top to bottom or pass?

[Will Boulware]

Hi Elliott!

Put me down as another old arn enthusiast. I've got a 24" Crescent jointer from the same era as the Silver you're looking at. Barring a modern Martin, there is NOTHING I would trade mine for (and even the Martin would be a questionable trade ) If you're ok with getting your hands dirty and learning some new old skills, this will turn out to be a fantastic machine for you. If you want a guesstimate of what something of this quality would cost you, check the current Northfield catalog.

Something to think about.... Don't assume it will be a $1200 head because of comparable pricing on other 12" models. These babbitt bearing machines have heads with spindles that run WAY off the ends (compared to a ball bearing cutterhead). Any good manufacturer can machine what you need, though. I'm pretty sure Hermance and Byrd can match your head if you ship it to them. I don't know anything about the Tersa heads.

One more thing to think about - when you get your cutterhead back, you'll most likely have to repour the babbitt bearings to get a good fit. This is a surprisingly easy process, and nothing a little research won't get you through.

One other option that I've seen done with good success is finding an old planer head of similar size (plenty of people are swapping theirs out for helix models) and having it modified by a machine shop. I've got the factory 4-knife head on my crescent and it cuts remarkably well, so don't write off a straight knife head if you can dredge up a good frankenstein swap candidate (Make sure the diameter is the same as what you need).

All that may sound complicated, but you're looking at a lifetime machine that will be awesome to use, so don't write it off! Let us know what you end up doing!

[Mel Fulks]

Seems to me the clamshell heads usually get replaced mainly because of predjudis against BABBITT. Those old machines will safely take off a lot more wood per pass than the new stuff. Some will take off a whole inch at once. That makes the jointer a good stand in for a straight line rip saw. And two knives cut fast. And those machines are easy to rig up helpful knife changing jigs since the out feed table adjustment wheels can be calibrated to help with knife change jig then reset quickly.

[Elliott Wilson]

I am against the clamshell mainly for the safety concerns
Judging by the infeed table this machine has already thrown a knife once and I prefer to keep at least 95% of my body parts
Plus the wife wouldn’t let me go near it until it has a safer modern blade inside it

[Elliott Wilson]

IMG_0205.jpgIMG_0214.JPG
here's some pics

[Mel Fulks]

None of them are safe. But some of the operators are! I've got a friend with a machine much like that one ,like many, he first assumed the Babbit was shot...but if was fine. My guess is that you will be better off with a machine some one ready to move on to stamp collecting is selling than making extensive changes to that one.

[Elliott Wilson]

well the specific problem with the clamshells is that all the force is transferred directly to the bolts and they can shear causing a catastrophic failure
the bolts are also prone to "stretching" over time causing it to bottom out in the hole and providing inadequate clamping force on the blades.
it doesnt matter how safe the operator is when a blade is flung from the machine at a 100mph

[Mel Fulks]

Certainly possible that the machine has been used by some incompetents. Almost a certainty. I'm sure new bolts can be had. I've worked where there was a lot of that stuff,but the guys worked their way up as an apprentice. No one got to run any machine just by saying he knew how. Had fewer injuries then than now. But they were "good jobs" then.

[Elliott Wilson]

Hey will, thank you for your comment!
My uncle works for a darn good local machine shop so I should have some adequate help in that dept
I was hoping to switch the Babbitt to balls but I don’t know how extensive a process this would be, do you know anyone that has done this to an old jointer before?
Byrd makes a replacement head for the 8” of the same year for $1200 but I’ve read that a Tersa would be slightly cheaper so that’s where I got that guesstimate

[Will Boulware]

Please tell me those shots are from inside your shop!?!?!?! Go get that thing!!!

And ditch the clamshell. I agree fully with Mel on general safety and on the babbitt issue - No machine is safe, but those cutterheads (Wadkin variant excluded) are a disaster waiting to happen. As far as babbitt goes, there's not much to be afraid of. Babbitt is simple and it works! You can do it!

[Mel Fulks]

Many of the sale ads for old jointers say they have been converted. I see that as not understanding that the babitt runs
smoother than most bearings and lasts a long time. If the stuff is good when you buy it ,it is unlikely you will wear it out.

[Elliott Wilson]

no not yet!
i have to figure out if im going to make the 5 hour drive with my drop deck trailer or hire a freight company
according to vintage machinery it is 1200lbs
have you any experience with shipping huge old arn?

[Elliott Wilson]

oh i wasn't aware of that, i have no issues using babbitt if its better i had just heard otherwise on other boards and want to restore this beast to a premium machine

[Will Boulware]

no not yet!
i have to figure out if im going to make the 5 hour drive with my drop deck trailer or hire a freight company
according to vintage machinery it is 1200lbs
have you any experience with shipping huge old arn?

I went and got mine (Drove from Tennessee to Iowa) with a uhaul trailer. If you have any way to pry it up (or access to a forklift and some straps), throw some 4x4 or 4x6 skids under it, bolt them down, and then roll it on 1 1/4" black iron pipe. My wife rolled mine into the shop (She wanted to do it herself). Just go slow. Jointers are simple machines to handle.

The fact that you own a drop deck trailer says you need to get this one yourself. Shipping will be expensive even before crating fees, and you'll probably have to drag it home from a fastenal or a freight dock even if you get it shipped. 5 hours isn't a bad drive.

[David Kumm]

I'm guessing a Byrd or preferably a Hermance ( even Terminus ) head will cost more like 2000-3000. Veriify the prices with a picture of the original head as reference. If that price is accurate, there are plenty of 12" plug and play options from Oliver, Yates, Porter, Newman, Etc Etc Etc. Dave