Sharpening Jigs for turning -- Varigrind or Tormek jigs

[David Wadstrup]

Hello,

I'm a long time woodworker who is just starting out in the world of turning. And I'm looking for some advice on jigs(not machines) for sharpening my turning tools. I own a very nice bench grinder that is set up with two Oneway bases. Attached to one base, I use Oneway's tool rest, and attached to the other I use the Tormek converter(OWC-1) and Bench Grinder Mounting Set(BGM-100). This set up allows me to use all Tormek jigs. Until now, I've only used their Square Edge jigs for my plane and chisel blades -- it's a solid, easy to use jig that I've had a lot of success with.

As I said, I now need to purchase jigs for my turning tools and am presented with 2 options. First, are the Tormek turning tool jigs(SVD-186 and SVS-50.) Second, is the Wolverine Varigrind and Vee-Arm. Both of these routes seem solid. My grinder is already set up to use both. And they both look to be well made and relatively easy to use. So here's my question:

For those of you who have used both, which do you prefer. I know a lot of people that have used one or the other and that their impressions are generally positive. But I'd love to hear from those of you who have experience with both. Thanks so much for taking the time with helping me figure this out.

Best,

David

PS please keep in mind that I'm not asking for a comparison of which machine to use: Tormek vs. Bench grinder. I don't own a Tormek and don't want one. I love my bench grinder with CBN wheels and am just curious about the different jigs.

Thanks.

[Alan Dick]

Hi David,

I have my grinder set up for both Oneway and Tormek jigs like you do. For sharpening the skew it is hard to beat the SVS-50. The ability to just flip it over to do one side of the skew or the other is extremely convenient and fast. Also, if you use an oval skew, that jig is one of the few that easily holds an oval skew for sharpening. For bowl gouges I usually go with the Oneway Varigrind (the original one). I find that with the Tormek jig, if I want to do an Ellsworth type grind with long wings, I am more limited in how far I can swing the handle to the side than I am with the Varigrind. But the Tormek jig is excellent nonetheless.

Alan

[John K Jordan]

I also use both jigs on a bench grinder (with CBN wheels) and also have a Tormek. I like some jigs better for different uses. I use the Varigrind on a bench grinder for my bowl gouges. For spindle gouges I use the Tormek jig on the bench grinder if I need to reshape a spindle gouge but after that I use the same jig on the Tormek with a finer wheel to sharpen. I sharpen skew chisels and scrapers by hand on a 600 grit CBN wheel on the bench grinder. I used to use the Tormek skew jig but eventually discovered I could sharpen as well and quicker without the jig.

BTW, I used the original Varigrind for a long time then bought the newer Varigrind 2. I do NOT like the new Varigrind jig. The only reason I keep it is to let people try it for themselves if they are trying to decide which to get. I don't like the way it forces the grind to always be in the center of the wheel.

I've posted these before, here is the bench grinder where I use both the Tormek and the Varigrind jigs. (I ordered the Tormek bracket and bar as replacement parts and made a support from wood to put this on the grinder long before Tormek came out with the kit.)

tormek_B.jpg

When I took the picture I had a 340 grit CBN wheel with radiused edges but now I use a 600 grit wheel with square edges on that grinder. (I use a 1200 grit CBN on the Tormek.)

If just getting one jig I'd have a hard time deciding. I very much like the Tormek jig for the spindle gouges and would use it with bowl gouges if I had to. And if I had just the Varigrind I could easily make do and sharpen the spindle gouges as well as the bowl gouges. But having used both if I had just the Tormek jig I'd probably save up and buy the Varigrind as well!

BTW, I also like the platforms with the Wolverine - much sturdier than the Tormek platforms. Have you tried Oneway's mini platform? It's a lot smaller and curved on the front and easier to use with some tools, especially short scrapers, skews, point tools, etc. that are too short to sharpen on the bigger platform.

JKJ

[Brian Deakin]

I purchased the original varigrind jig off e bay
The previous owner had drilled small depressions on the jig to set the arm in 3 different positions 25 ,40 and 50 degree's ( the arm is then set with a small grub screw)
Can anyone please advice if these three settings are useful and what to use them for

[John K Jordan]

https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread....23#post2816723
Sawmill Creek, 5/27/2018

I purchased the original varigrind jig off e bay
The previous owner had drilled small depressions on the jig to set the arm in 3 different positions 25 ,40 and 50 degree's ( the arm is then set with a small grub screw)
Can anyone please advice if these three settings are useful and what to use them for

Brian,

I assume you are talking about setting it up the Vari-Grind to sharpen bowl gouges. Most people are. The different angles are just part of what will determine the grind on your gouge will look like. But there is no simple answer unless you get one from someone who has set his once, grinds a particular way, and swears by it. (Actually not a bad idea!)

The Vari-grind jig is particularly confusing to set up. Oneway's instructions are not much help. The three variables, the tool protrusion from the front of the jig, the angle of the control arm, and the position of the v-pocket extended from the grinder all work together to give different grinds. The angle you mentioned controls both the side angle (wings) of swept back grinds and the nose angle, but the other adjustments must also be consistent. To add to the confusion, two different people using the same settings can get different grind shapes depending on how much time they grind on the nose vs the wings.

Some expert turners adjust the angle of the control leg for different grind shapes, leaving the v-pocket extension equal. I think Glenn Lucas said he keeps three different vari-grind jigs each set for the the three angles he uses for bowl turning (he is a production turner and makes 1000's of bowls), welding the control arm into place and color-coding the gouges and the jigs to make it foolproof. He uses the different angles for different parts of the types of bowls he turns, for example the insides, transition, and the inside bottom. Perhaps the jig you got was modified to follow his examples. Others recommend keeping the control arm the same and adjust the nose angle with the v-pocket extension. Some who use this method say the control arm angle is the primary setting for the side angle.

The important thing is to duplicate a grind you must use exactly the same settings each time. To duplicate a grind you like on an existing tool may take a little fiddling.

The other John Jordan (the famous one) describes how he does this. Make sense to me. Look at this video starting at time 39:38. (The rest of the video may be useful too.)
AAW Woodturning: Fundamentals of Sharpening
https://vimeo.com/111139564
John Jordan, Vari-grind at 39:38
This may be the best method to try if you want to duplicate an existing grind that you use and like.

Doug Thompson sharpens a different way and provides an instruction sheet.
http://thompsonlathetools.com/sharpening/

These may be interesting reading material:
http://honoluluwoodturners.org/16_ti...g%20demyst.pdf
http://www.carlford.info/pages/jigs_..._Templates.pdf

Some of these methods might be better if you don't have an existing grind you like and want to experiment.

To add to the confusion, some versions of the original Vari-Grind jig have notches on the bottom to help reset the angle consistently but it may not be immediately obvious how to use the notches. Some versions omitted those notches. Somewhere I copied this picture of how one guy sets his:
vargrind.jpg

Some people swear by some expert's grind, like David Ellsworth's. While these are good starting points, I think the most important thing is to experiment with grinds and use EACH one long enough to get familiar with it so you will know what works best for you. Set, grind, and stick with it to learn how it works. The beauty of this is if you use the same settings each time it only takes a few seconds to sharpen each time. I personally have the control arm on mine set to a bowl gouge grind that works for me and I never touch it. (I actually have two of the jigs and have the second one set to a different angle for a special purpose.)

BTW, for another perspective on the relationship of the variables to the grind shape, a useful thing to read might be the Tormek SVD-185 jig manual. It, like all of these jigs, works the same way by controlling the extension, the control leg angle, and the support point. There are some interesting charts here that show some of the variations. Note again that the actual shape you get depends on how much time you spend sharpening the tip vs the wings of a swept back grind. Not also, that nothing here, like anywhere, will explain just how useful a particular grind will be to you in a given situation.
Tormek gouge Jig SVD-185
https://www.tormek.com/media/448711/...01-svd-185.pdf

JKJ

[Steve Shepherd]

I recently bought a clone of the tormek machine, and am in the process of 3d printing replicated versions of the Tormek jigs. Was thinking of buying the full turners kit to measure them precisely, but right now I'm just eyeballing it from catalogs. I have found though that one you get the right profile using a jig, maintaining it freehand is pretty easy on the wet grinder.