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Thread: Thinking of Hand Carving as a new hobby.

  1. #31
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    Right on John. I jumped the wagon & went right to letters, in Cursive-Elegant yet - very script - very challenging too, but i wanted to see what I was up against. Just too impatient to get started. To top it off I tried the carving in poplar. Didn't you say poplar could be hard to carve. You are so right, and my knife easily passes the thumbnail/hair sharpness test too. I'm going to have to wait a while until I can go to the lumber yard to get some butternut, white pine & walnut wood. They don't have basswood. In the meantime I try practicing on the little 3" Sq. EZboard that came with the knife.

    The mirror image transfer wasn't too bad. Not really good & sharp, but enough to easily guide the direction of the knife. I found it important to use the darkest black ink color on the fonts for both Word 2007 & Paint. I'll keep trying until my skills improve & I find it's not good enough, then will try graphite sheets. I'm not good at freehand penciling/painting so tracing might work out, but I'm not keen on doing a lot of erasing.

    I've three of MB books due in so I'll check what he recommends for fonts.
    Thoughts entering one's mind need not exit one's mouth!
    As I age my memory fades .... and that's a load off my mind!

    "We Live In The Land Of The Free, Only Because Of The Brave"
    “The problems we face today are there because the people who work for a living are outnumbered by those who vote for a living."
    "
    Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." Winston Churchill

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Al Launier View Post
    Also I determined that Word 2007 cannot mirror image text. Instead I have to copy the text to Paint, flip it, then copy that back to Word 2007. Cumbersome, but it works. Now I can work towards carving names onto my projects. Progress is slow, but steady.
    Al,

    In Word 2007, insert text using "WordArt", set the text type and size. You can flip horizontally.

    Capture.JPG

    If printing on a laser printer or copying machine, both using toner cartridges, you can use lacquer thinner (sparingly) to transfer a pattern. Place on smooth surface, pattern down, and rub LT through paper. LT will dissolve toner enough to transfer pattern. I use this method often. Practice on scrap pieces, as too much LT will cause toner to run.
    .... Dave

    Old carvers never die.... they just whittle away.

  3. #33
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    Thanks for the suggestion Dave. I tried using WordArt before, but was unsuccessful as the Rotate icon wouldn't light up for use. Now it works. Must have done something wrong. Much simpler now. Thanks again.

    PS: How did you copy that image. I tried the copy/paste, but that didn't work. So, i had to save as a PDF file then attach it here.
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    Last edited by Al Launier; 06-03-2018 at 11:04 AM.
    Thoughts entering one's mind need not exit one's mouth!
    As I age my memory fades .... and that's a load off my mind!

    "We Live In The Land Of The Free, Only Because Of The Brave"
    “The problems we face today are there because the people who work for a living are outnumbered by those who vote for a living."
    "
    Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." Winston Churchill

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Al Launier View Post
    PS: How did you copy that image. I tried the copy/paste, but that didn't work. So, i had to save as a PDF file then attach it here.
    I can't answer for how Dave does it, but what I do is a screen capture (Alt-PrtScr), load the screen capture in to an image editor (I use Photoshop or Photoshop Elements), crop and size as needed, save as a JPG file, then insert the JPG into an SMC message with the Insert Image function.

    JKJ

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Al Launier View Post
    How did you copy that image.
    I used MS "Snipping Tool". (Comes with Windows). Snip what's on screen. Save it as a .jpg and insert as image.
    .... Dave

    Old carvers never die.... they just whittle away.

  6. #36
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    I also use Alt Prnt Scrn, but I would drop onto Word & then copy/paste it. It's a good tool.

    Yup, Snipping works. Didn't realize this tool existed. Another technique. Thank you, I saved .
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    Last edited by Al Launier; 06-04-2018 at 9:46 AM.
    Thoughts entering one's mind need not exit one's mouth!
    As I age my memory fades .... and that's a load off my mind!

    "We Live In The Land Of The Free, Only Because Of The Brave"
    “The problems we face today are there because the people who work for a living are outnumbered by those who vote for a living."
    "
    Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." Winston Churchill

  7. #37
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    First practice session using the sample piece of EZboard that came with my Ruby cutting knife. The knife felt very awkward when holding it correctly. The first image is my first attempt as you can easily tell - not so good. My second attempt is not any better, but the knife did start to feel more comfortable. Tomorrow I'm going to try to get some basswood at a local lumber yard, or some butternut wood at another local lumber yard. I like the butternut wood better because of the grain which more closely resembles the projects I'll be making in the future, plus it'll allow some for practice on cross grain chipping.
    Despite the awkward feel of the knife it actually was fun and slowly became more natural in hand. Much, much more practice is needed.
    Thoughts entering one's mind need not exit one's mouth!
    As I age my memory fades .... and that's a load off my mind!

    "We Live In The Land Of The Free, Only Because Of The Brave"
    “The problems we face today are there because the people who work for a living are outnumbered by those who vote for a living."
    "
    Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." Winston Churchill

  8. #38
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    Excellent start! I found the knife position started to feel natural after a very short time, after which anything else feels awkward. It might help at first to have a large enough piece of wood to rest the hand at the same level as the surface being carved. I think I got a second piece of wood the same thickness and put in on the table next to my practice board.

    My chips got noticeably better when I got better at visualizing exactly where the point of the knife was in the wood and learned to draw the point down and back at the right angle. When cutting wood with grain it's usually best to do one particular cut last. To learn the grain I made a bunch of practice chips at random rotations.

    You're getting me interested in making chips again - I haven't done any of this since last summer. Perhaps I'll glue up some layers and turn another goblet or an ornament.

    JKJ

    Quote Originally Posted by Al Launier View Post
    First practice session using the sample piece of EZboard that came with my Ruby cutting knife. The knife felt very awkward when holding it correctly. The first image is my first attempt as you can easily tell - not so good. My second attempt is not any better, but the knife did start to feel more comfortable. Tomorrow I'm going to try to get some basswood at a local lumber yard, or some butternut wood at another local lumber yard. I like the butternut wood better because of the grain which more closely resembles the projects I'll be making in the future, plus it'll allow some for practice on cross grain chipping.
    Despite the awkward feel of the knife it actually was fun and slowly became more natural in hand. Much, much more practice is needed.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by John K Jordan View Post
    Excellent start! I found the knife position started to feel natural after a very short time, after which anything else feels awkward. It might help at first to have a large enough piece of wood to rest the hand at the same level as the surface being carved. I think I got a second piece of wood the same thickness and put in on the table next to my practice board.

    My chips got noticeably better when I got better at visualizing exactly where the point of the knife was in the wood and learned to draw the point down and back at the right angle. When cutting wood with grain it's usually best to do one particular cut last. To learn the grain I made a bunch of practice chips at random rotations.

    You're getting me interested in making chips again - I haven't done any of this since last summer. Perhaps I'll glue up some layers and turn another goblet or an ornament.


    JKJ

    Thanks, it was actually fun once I got going.

    That's exactly what I did. I used a 6" square of MDF & cut a 2" square notch out of one side to place a corner of the EZboard in the "notch" just so I could rest my hand & to be able to find a comfortable way to position the EZboard. I didn't appreciate how many times one has to re-position the work piece.

    Today I went to a not-so-local sawmill (got lost) to get some butternut wood so I could practice cutting against the grain. I was very disappointed with the few pieces they had after calling in advance & stating that I was looking for relatively clear pieces, i.e. few knots. Turned out to be full of knots & spilts - unusable. So I settled for Basswood (I think - guy not sure, but it was very light), Aspen, and some White Pine. I'll resaw the rough 4/4 boards into thinner boards, ~3/8", then joint & plane them.

    I'll try that.

    John, don't hold back. Your work is absolutely outstanding & great to look at.

    Thoughts entering one's mind need not exit one's mouth!
    As I age my memory fades .... and that's a load off my mind!

    "We Live In The Land Of The Free, Only Because Of The Brave"
    “The problems we face today are there because the people who work for a living are outnumbered by those who vote for a living."
    "
    Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." Winston Churchill

  10. #40
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    Practice session #2:
    Went to the sawmill Saturday to get some Basswood & Butternut wood. Called ahead & reviewed with the guy what I was looking for & he confirmed he had what I wanted & would take care of me. Not so much.

    • The Basswood was split/cracked so badly - unusable.
    • The butternut wood was so knotty would be able to salvage a 1' board out of a 4' length & not worth the price.
    • Picked a couple of shorts 2'-3' long of clear Aspen.
    • Picked several boards 3'4' lg of White Pine.
    • .50 mile RT




    • Monday I picked up some graphite paper, a set of styluses of different tip sizes & a graphite eraser at Hobby Lobby. The small one produces a nice fine line.
    • Last night I photocopied a pattern set (attached), taped it to a piece of Aspen & traced it out. Works much better than other ways suggested online, like printing & then scraping image onto wood, printing then ironing, printing image on freezer paper & rubbing the image into the wood. Didn't have any luck with any of those methods. Graphite works best so far.
    • Today/tonight I tried carving the three patterns. As you can see I have a long way to go.


    Lesson learned:
    • A sharp knife is a MUST!
    • I initially thought the knife was sharp after working it on 400/600/1000 grit paper followed by stropping with with a green honing compound (Formax No. 12668). After carving for a while & touching up the blade I decided it wasn't really sharp. Resharpened it again this time adding a 8000 wet stone to the process & then stropping it. It cut noticeably better.
    • A stiff bristle brush would be handy to clean out the chips.
    • Keep the blade sharp!
    • Look ahead of the blade when cutting.
    • Maintain the 65° cutting angle. Going more upright with a sharper angle makes cutting the the midpoint of feature deeper & more difficult to mate with opposite half of cut.
    • I have difficulty on tight turns, even when using just the tip.
    • Keep the blade sharp!
    • I'm having trouble adjusting the depth of cut as I begin & end a cut. So far I'm unable to make the cut in a single flowing pass.
    • I'm forced into making several passes to reach final depth.
    • One surprising problem I didn't expect was all the thumbnail impressions I'm making. Don't know if I'm holding the knife wrong (using the hold from mychipcarving.com & also from pictures in Wayne Barton's book (The Complete Guide To Chip Carving" - 2007) should adjust the knife holding position or just trim the thumbnail to the quick.
    • Keep the blade sharp! I had to sharpen the blade about every 5 minutes.
    • Using a desk mounted magnifying light is very helpful.
    • Having arthritis in one's fingers is not.
    • I also have trouble with chipping in tight areas, perhaps I'm not carving the details in the right sequence, like should I cut cross grain before long grain? Is there a general rule of which details should be priority over overs as to when to cut these?


    I'd appreciate your critique of my attempts to carve the three patterns. I did the top one first, then the middle & finally the bottom one. I'm going to try this pattern set again hoping to do better & hoping you can offer some criticism. I went way off on the bottom one, failing to cut the fine outside line.
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    Last edited by Al Launier; 06-10-2018 at 9:27 PM.
    Thoughts entering one's mind need not exit one's mouth!
    As I age my memory fades .... and that's a load off my mind!

    "We Live In The Land Of The Free, Only Because Of The Brave"
    “The problems we face today are there because the people who work for a living are outnumbered by those who vote for a living."
    "
    Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." Winston Churchill

  11. #41
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    Those look pretty good to me. Just like woodturning, making two curved things the same is hard! A symmetrical pattern is the hardest, trying to get both halves the same. Letters are easier. The sort-of-horizontal leaf pieces on the bottom sure look good. The hard thing is making each chip come out clean without junk in the bottom of the "v" - I read that the goal is to always make each cut perfect in one pass and never have go back and make a second cut to clean up. In that respect it is better to cut a little too deep than not quite deep enough. I did come up with a secret technique to "heal" the bottoms of a chip or curve if I did cut too deep and left a noticeable cut line on the bottom. I might even share it if interested.

    I think I cut cross grain first then long grain but I'd have to actually make some chips and try to pay attention. I think the ends of the crossgrain cuts serve as a stop for the long grain since it is easier to go too far. I always paid close attention to the grain to avoid slips and unintentionally following the grain, especially when one side of a triangular chip was close but not parallel with the grain. Almost impossible to avoid when making long curved chips as in your patterns but should still be controllable with a sharp knife. I've done most of my chip carving in very high quality basswood, though - maybe the wood you are using is more challenging.

    Everyone has trouble with sharp turns. That is one advantage of the "modified" knife the the mychipcarving guy sells. The point is narrower from spine to edge allowing tighter curves without fighting the flat of the blade so much.

    Did you grind the sides of your knife until they are almost one long bevel from edge to the top, very thin? If not, that might help with both normal chips and flowing curves. I posted this before but here it is again - a diagram that's pretty close to what the cross-section of my three knives look like at the equivalent places on the blades near the tip:
    chip_carving_knife_angles.jpg
    (Please disregard what look like horrible scratches on the sides of the blades. The lighting makes them look bad but they are actually quite polished and the scratches are nearly microscopic.)

    I never sharpened every few minutes but I did strop every few minutes on a piece of leather with some polishing/honing compound applied. My favorite strop is a thin piece of pig skin glued to a flat stick. I just rub some green polishing compound into the leather or better, the yellow compound sold for "sharpening" general carving chisels. The first piece I had came in a Flexcut sharpening kit but then I found it on Amazon:
    https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000ZRZQIO

    I should say that all of the basswood blocks, planks, and sample boards I've ever bought (and even the rough-sawn boards given to me) have been absolutely perfect. No splits, cracks, knots - nothing but clear, clean fine-grained wood. Another thing, on advice from a chip carver I keep the basswood in plastic bags to keep it from drying out too much. If too dry it is harder to carve and chips more easily. If you lived close I'd cut some practice pieces for you so you can see the difference!

    Also, I can't ever remember making thumbnail depressions in the wood. I don't think my thumbnail gets anywhere near the wood surface. I'm not in the shop now so I can't grab a knife and try it to be sure, but I think just the skin of my fingers and hand touch the wood. I wish I had a photos of my hand positions (both normal and backhand/reversed, harder but a real time-saver on occasion) but all I can find is this one where I'm not carving on a flat surface:
    chip_ornament_carvingIMG_43.jpg

    This week I'm way overloaded but maybe this weekend I can get out the knives, think about the grain, and take photos of hand positions. I'm sure my hands will be photogenic - I smashed one finger with a hammer and got abrasions and cuts on both thumbs working on the remodeling and got blood everywhere. (My little grandson observed recently that it is better to keep your blood inside your body. Hmmm...) I also stepped on nails twice so I'm limping - whine, whine, whine!

    JKJ

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by John K Jordan View Post
    Those look pretty good to me. Thanks very encouraging coming from you. Just like woodturning, making two curved things the same is hard! I'm finding that out! A symmetrical pattern is the hardest, trying to get both halves the same. Letters are easier. Good news! Looking forward to letters especially. The sort-of-horizontal leaf pieces on the bottom sure look good. Thanks, but it wasn't in one cut. Opened it up after fouling up the first cut. The hard thing is making each chip come out clean without junk in the bottom of the "v" - I read that the goal is to always make each cut perfect in one pass and never have go back and make a second cut to clean up. I'd like to do that for sure! In that respect it is better to cut a little too deep than not quite deep enough. I did come up with a secret technique to "heal" the bottoms of a chip or curve if I did cut too deep and left a noticeable cut line on the bottom. I might even share it if interested. Consider me very interested!

    I think I cut cross grain first then long grain but I'd have to actually make some chips and try to pay attention. I think the ends of the crossgrain cuts serve as a stop for the long grain since it is easier to go too far. I always paid close attention to the grain to avoid slips and unintentionally following the grain, especially when one side of a triangular chip was close but not parallel with the grain. Almost impossible to avoid when making long curved chips as in your patterns but should still be controllable with a sharp knife. I've done most of my chip carving in very high quality basswood, though - maybe the wood you are using is more challenging. Maybe? I usually cut cross grain first on my TS & BS saws & router ending with a long grain cut to clean out burrs. Sounds like this could apply to carving. On the pother hand I wonder if it would be a good idea to stop just short on the final long grain cut, then cut the final short distance in the opposite direction???

    Everyone has trouble with sharp turns. That is one advantage of the "modified" knife the the mychipcarving guy sells. The point is narrower from spine to edge allowing tighter curves without fighting the flat of the blade so much.

    Did you grind the sides of your knife until they are almost one long bevel from edge to the top, very thin? No I didn't. It came with a distinct, but shallow bevel. I've been sanding/stropping at at angle that is shallower than the original bevel as noticed by the sharpened surface creeping up the original bevel. I'll put it on my small belt sander tomorrow with a fine grit, then a 600 grit belt to finish grind to your sketch dipping frequently in water to keep the temper. I'll then sand on a flat surface with 600 grit followed by 1000 grit wet paper. To finish it off, hopefully to establish a repeatable base for the blade, I'll put it on an 8,000 then a 12,000 wet stone followed by stropping to polish it off. If that doesn't produce a very sharp knife I'll grab a beer & scratch my head a few times. If not, that might help with both normal chips and flowing curves. I posted this before but here it is again - a diagram that's pretty close to what the cross-section of my three knives look like at the equivalent places on the blades near the tip:
    chip_carving_knife_angles.jpg
    (Please disregard what look like horrible scratches on the sides of the blades. The lighting makes them look bad but they are actually quite polished and the scratches are nearly microscopic.)

    I never sharpened every few minutes but I did strop every few minutes on a piece of leather with some polishing/honing compound applied. My favorite strop is a thin piece of pig skin glued to a flat stick. I just rub some green polishing compound into the leather or better, the yellow compound sold for "sharpening" general carving chisels. The first piece I had came in a Flexcut sharpening kit but then I found it on Amazon:
    https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000ZRZQIO

    I should say that all of the basswood blocks, planks, and sample boards I've ever bought (and even the rough-sawn boards given to me) have been absolutely perfect. No splits, cracks, knots - nothing but clear, clean fine-grained wood. Another thing, on advice from a chip carver I keep the basswood in plastic bags to keep it from drying out too much. If too dry it is harder to carve and chips more easily. If you lived close I'd cut some practice pieces for you so you can see the difference! Thanks for the offer John, appreciate it. but I live in NH and will just keep looking to find a source, plus I need to develop my skills on wood that i would use in my projects.

    Also, I can't ever remember making thumbnail depressions in the wood. I don't think my thumbnail gets anywhere near the wood surface. I have to be holding the knife wrong, too vertical - will work on that. I'm not in the shop now so I can't grab a knife and try it to be sure, but I think just the skin of my fingers and hand touch the wood. I wish I had a photos of my hand positions (both normal and backhand/reversed, harder but a real time-saver on occasion) but all I can find is this one where I'm not carving on a flat surface:
    chip_ornament_carvingIMG_43.jpg

    This week I'm way overloaded but maybe this weekend I can get out the knives, think about the grain, and take photos of hand positions. I'm sure my hands will be photogenic - I smashed one finger with a hammer and got abrasions and cuts on both thumbs working on the remodeling and got blood everywhere. (My little grandson observed recently that it is better to keep your blood inside your body. Hmmm...) I also stepped on nails twice so I'm limping - whine, whine, whine! Going forward in any pursuit includes the pain and sacrifice of getting there to be successful. You obviously have paid the price judging from your work.
    John, as usual you've given me some insightful advice that will help me advance my carving skills. I just transferred the same patterns onto another piece of Aspen. This time I sanded the wood with 220 grit paper & the graphite image came out bolder. I'm slowly getting there.

    Do you use the second position that Wayne Barton describes, i.e. pushing down with the thumb on the blade? So far I seem to be more comfortable with the first position, same as you use.

    JKJ
    John, thank you for your help, I really appreciate the encouragement and your taking the time to do this.. I just know I'm going to succeed at this new hobby. It will give me more incentive to continue making the jewelry boxes, etc. with the carvings on it to make it more personal.
    Last edited by Al Launier; 06-11-2018 at 10:42 PM.
    Thoughts entering one's mind need not exit one's mouth!
    As I age my memory fades .... and that's a load off my mind!

    "We Live In The Land Of The Free, Only Because Of The Brave"
    “The problems we face today are there because the people who work for a living are outnumbered by those who vote for a living."
    "
    Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." Winston Churchill

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Al Launier View Post
    Did you grind the sides of your knife until they are almost one long bevel from edge to the top, very thin?
    No I didn't. It came with a distinct, but shallow bevel. I've been sanding/stropping at at angle that is shallower than the original bevel as noticed by the sharpened surface creeping up the original bevel. I'll put it on my small belt sander tomorrow with a fine grit, then a 600 grit belt to finish grind to your sketch dipping frequently in water to keep the temper. I'll then sand on a flat surface with 600 grit followed by 1000 grit wet paper. To finish it off, hopefully to establish a repeatable base for the blade, I'll put it on an 8,000 then a 12,000 wet stone followed by stropping to polish it off. If that doesn't produce a very sharp knife I'll grab a beer & scratch my head a few times.
    Your bevel shape now sounds like the one I started with and it was so frustrating that I put the knife in the drawer and decided this wasn't for me. It wasn't until years later I watched a pro chip carver/instructor work and looked at his knife. I went home and duplicated it the best I could, with a long, very slightly curved bevel sort of as shown in the sketch but not quite, probably more curved from edge to spine. I ground with the flat side of a Tormak water wheel then refined it with coarse to very fine natural and ceramic stones. Far, far, FAR better! I could finally make some chips. The thin blade looks fragile but that has not been a problem - there shouldn't be any sideways stress on the edge to bend it and the steel is both hard and tough. The thin blade goes effortlessly into the wood and the polished sides at the tip let it stab to the bottom of a triangular chip or glide down a curve.

    The Hock knife came with the bevel the closest to useful out of the package which make it take the least amount of work to prepare. It's quicker to sharpen, too, probably because the blade is not as wide. From one book I read the wide blade with the curved spine appears to be the traditional Scandinavian design that Barton copied, but unlike general carving/whittling, for making shallow chips we never use anything but the first tiny bit of the edge and bevel of the tip! The rest is "wasted" except to support the blade while sharpening/honing.

    I mentioned the sharpening kit that mychipcarving sells - four strips of increasingly fine abrasive paper mounted on a thin square surface, used with water. After trying this I threw away the stones! (Not literally, they were expensive ) One thing is the fairly long strips along the four edges of the board allowed me to keep my hand position very consistent for each stroke. I also found the board easy to hold and quick to rotate to the next grit.

    I need to develop my skills on wood that i would use in my projects.
    I might disagree on this. It seems to me soft, perfect basswood/linden with it's very fine and uniform structure would let you develop the hand position and motions easier without fighting with the wood. Once you are very comfortable with that and making near-perfect chips and curves, I think transitioning to more challenging wood would be a lot easier. I found that so, anyway. I haven't made any projects with other species but I did experiment with several, including maple, pine, walnut, bradford pear, etc. Pear, for example, took much more force with the knife, not something I would want to learn with. There is a good reason that most chip carvers and even many general wood carvers use basswood when carving by hand, often switching to chisels and power tools for other woods.

    I'm always glad to tell what I've learned but keep in mind that I'm an amateur at this. I haven't spent too many months at it although I did find it easy. Maybe that was because early on I stumbled on the knife shape, hand positions, and useful techniques. If you can swing it you may benefit greatly from even a short course in the same room with a real chip carver!

    BTW, I made almost instant improvement when I learned to visualize where the tip of the blade was in the wood. This made it easy to see how I needed to draw the tip down into the wood to cut the angle of the "far" corner of the chip while holding the knife (or rotating as needed around the point) to end up with the flat of the edge at the angle needed for the "near" corner. It helped me to go through the motions of cutting a chip while following the the sides of an existing chip. Also, like woodturning, I work slowly compared to others. Watching how fast Barton works in a video almost makes me dizzy.

    JKJ

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by John K Jordan View Post
    Your bevel shape now sounds like the one I started with and it was so frustrating that I put the knife in the drawer and decided this wasn't for me. It wasn't until years later I watched a pro chip carver/instructor work and looked at his knife. I went home and duplicated it the best I could, with a long, very slightly curved bevel sort of as shown in the sketch but not quite, probably more curved from edge to spine. Is this curve slightly convex as it seems to appear in your sketch, or did you end up with a slightly concave grind? It would seem to me that a slightly convex grind might tend to push the chip away from the adjacent wood while a concave grind would tend to slice better??? I ground with the flat side of a Tormak water wheel then refined it with coarse to very fine natural and ceramic stones. Far, far, FAR better! I could finally make some chips. The thin blade looks fragile but that has not been a problem - there shouldn't be any sideways stress on the edge to bend it and the steel is both hard and tough. The thin blade goes effortlessly into the wood and the polished sides at the tip let it stab to the bottom of a triangular chip or glide down a curve. I don't have a good grinding set-up, only a bench grinder & a 1"x 42" belt sander. I plan on roughing it out from edge to spine with a coarser belt, then complete roughing out the shape with a 600 grit belt before I place it on a sheet of 3/8" glass with strips of 400 then 600 grit wet paper, followed by stropping. If that doesn't work well I'll try the 8000 & 12000 wet stones again finishing off with the strop. In fact, I have a scalpel that I'll convert into a chip knife. That'll give me some practice before I grind the real chip knife & I'll make a handle for it & rivet it together. Who knows I might even be able to make a knife for tighter arcs.

    By the way, I once again looked at mychipcarving thinking I'd buy just a modified blade for $9.95 & make my own handle, but their shipping charge is also $9.95. They seem to charge the same shipping fee regardless of the price of the item purchased - just doesn't sit well with me.

    The Hock knife came with the bevel the closest to useful out of the package which make it take the least amount of work to prepare. It's quicker to sharpen, too, probably because the blade is not as wide. From one book I read the wide blade with the curved spine appears to be the traditional Scandinavian design that Barton copied, but unlike general carving/whittling, for making shallow chips we never use anything but the first tiny bit of the edge and bevel of the tip! The rest is "wasted" except to support the blade while sharpening/honing.

    I mentioned the sharpening kit that mychipcarving sells - four strips of increasingly fine abrasive paper mounted on a thin square surface, used with water. After trying this I threw away the stones! (Not literally, they were expensive ) One thing is the fairly long strips along the four edges of the board allowed me to keep my hand position very consistent for each stroke. I also found the board easy to hold and quick to rotate to the next grit. I also like this method, placing the glass on my shop desk to rest the paper on. I find I can hold the blade at fairly consistent position throughout the sharpening stroke. So far I've used only the 400 & 600 & 1000 grit abrasive wet sheets cut as needed. These sheets have a "no-slip" coating on the back so they do stick fairly well to the glass without slipping, plus the water helps to hold the regular paper as well.

    I might disagree on this. It seems to me soft, perfect basswood/linden with it's very fine and uniform structure would let you develop the hand position and motions easier without fighting with the wood. Once you are very comfortable with that and making near-perfect chips and curves, I think transitioning to more challenging wood would be a lot easier. I found that so, anyway.t found a good local source yet. I don't doubt that you are right, I just haven't a good local source yet. Frankly, I'd rather see & touch wood that I buy rather than leaving it to luck online & paying the shipping charges. I haven't made any projects with other species but I did experiment with several, including maple, pine, walnut, bradford pear, etc. Pear, for example, took much more force with the knife, not something I would want to learn with. There is a good reason that most chip carvers and even many general wood carvers use basswood when carving by hand, often switching to chisels and power tools for other woods. By the way, do you carve with other hand knives/tools in conjunction with your chip cutting knives?

    I'm always glad to tell what I've learned but keep in mind that I'm an amateur at this. If you are an amateur what does that make me? I haven't spent too many months at it although I did find it easy. Maybe that was because early on I stumbled on the knife shape, hand positions, and useful techniques. If you can swing it you may benefit greatly from even a short course in the same room with a real chip carver!

    BTW, I made almost instant improvement when I learned to visualize where the tip of the blade was in the wood. This made it easy to see how I needed to draw the tip down into the wood to cut the angle of the "far" corner of the chip while holding the knife (or rotating as needed around the point) to end up with the flat of the edge at the angle needed for the "near" corner. It helped me to go through the motions of cutting a chip while following the the sides of an existing chip. I've been trying to do this, but it was sometimes difficult to cut deeper when needed, most likely because the knife wasn't sharp enough. Also, like woodturning, I work slowly compared to others. Watching how fast Barton works in a video almost makes me dizzy. I'm so slow I sometimes wake up in the middle of a cut!

    JKJ
    So now that you have me going again I'm going to work on that scalpel.
    PS: What was that secret you referred to? Does it require a secret PM?
    Thoughts entering one's mind need not exit one's mouth!
    As I age my memory fades .... and that's a load off my mind!

    "We Live In The Land Of The Free, Only Because Of The Brave"
    “The problems we face today are there because the people who work for a living are outnumbered by those who vote for a living."
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    Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." Winston Churchill

  15. #45
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    Feb 2008
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    E TN, near Knoxville
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    12,298
    My knives have a slightly convex bevel, much like the drawing but a more gradual curve without the inflection point in the drawing. I think a concave edge would be too thin and perhaps fragile. One thing might be interesting, draw a dot at the top of your bevel a short distance from the tip then with digital calipers measure the distance of the dot from the edge and the thickness of the blade at that point. Use trig to figure the angle (assuming a flat bevel). I listed the angles I got on my three knives - are yours close?


    The sharpening kit has grits down to 3 micron. This is not paper-backed sandpaper but some kind of plastic with an adhesive backing, tough, very flat. I bought a few extra strips of each grit but haven't even come close to wearing out what came on the kit.
    http://mychipcarving.com/product_inf...ening-kit-p-77

    From my experience and those of others who have said they have ordered from Heinecke, you won't be disappointed in their wood. I found out about it from someone who has been ordering from them for years. Others on this forum have also recommended them. I'm sure there are other places but that's all I have experience with except for local stores.

    I carve with other hand knives, a variety of small hand gouges and chisels, a reciprocal carver, and several rotary carvers (including two Foredoms). The reciprocal carver is a dream, cutting cocobolo and other hard woods like butter. Like the hand tools, the chisels need to be kept razor sharp. I usually use carbide burrs on the rotary carvers to carve wood, plastics, and metals. I haven't done any other carving on chip-carved pieces yet but hope to someday when I get a free month.

    One definition of a professional is someone who charges or makes a profit with his trade/craft. I don't and don't aspire to.

    What I meant by practicing the movements with an existing chip was not to make a cut but simply to glide the knife along the faces of the chip, practicing the knife hold, draw motion, and depth/rotation without engaging the wood.

    The "secret" healing method I came up with was very effective. I have a thin, very sharp awl made for artists. If I have accidentally go too deep while cutting one face of a chip, there is an unsightly dark "canyon" at the where the two planes meet, a very narrow but visible gap. I put a tiny smear of white glue on the last 1/8" or so of the awl and starting at the very bottom of the chip, press the glue into the gap, pulling the awl up the "v" (keeping it aligned with the "v", not digging in with the point) while applying a little pressure. The awl is sized just right at the point so it presses the glue into the gap and slightly burnishes both sides. It would be so much easier to demonstrate than describe it in words. In basswood, at least, this closes the gap and makes it invisible, as if I cut it perfectly the first time. Done tell anyone - this must remain secret.

    I have also glued in little pieces of wood that split out where the grain was wild. I like to work over a clean dark cloth surface so if a piece does break out I can find it. Another dark secret - I've been know (only to myself) to carve a tiny piece to fit to replace a bad spot. I've never tried this on curves, just normal chips.

    JKJ

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