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Thread: Tapered chisels & honing guide

  1. #46
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    Todd,
    I believe one could make an argument that freehand can be fast.

    I followed the progress of other posters on this forum and bought a better tool rest and a CBN wheel, actually two. I had a bad experience with my old Tormek rest and ended up purchasing a Stuart Batty rest and Stuart Batty angle setter. “Robo Hippy” also makes a rest that many like. Robo Hippy posts on the Turners Forum on SMC.

    If one wants to sharpen fast Todd,
    I think “freehand” hollow grinding on a CBN wheel can create a bevel that just about anyone can “freehand” sharpen. Particularly if they start out working along the length of the edge. Maybe the “more advanced” sharpeners make the hollows and others just maintain those hollows.....

    I learned to make hollows, even cambered hollows, in plane blades first. Once I learned to touch those hollows up by hand, using hard, waterless, Spyderco stones. I found it easy to adjust to sharpening chisels and other tools regardless of whether there was a hollow grind or not. For me the immediate feedback on CBN wheels was what I needed to be able to actually see what was going on. Believe it or not the cost to my plane blades was negligible, as I could see immediate results.

    I have multiple blades for most of my most used planes, but those blades may have multiple cambers. As a result, unlike Brian above, I tend to sharpen as I go. Hitting 10>20 passes on a waterless stone usually does not slow my work progress down as much as a dull blade does. I find that not having to change the tool I have developed a feel for during the work may out weigh the time spent maintaining “sharpness”.

    I am currently experimenting with Buffalo hide and charged Buffalo hide as a method of maintaining sharpness vs grinding.
    Last edited by Mike Holbrook; 05-28-2018 at 1:04 PM.

  2. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Holbrook View Post
    Todd,
    I believe one could make an argument that freehand can be fast.

    I followed the progress of other posters on this forum and bought a better tool rest and a CBN wheel, actually two. I had a bad experience with my old Tormek rest and ended up purchasing a Stuart Batty rest and Stuart Batty angle setter. “Robo Hippy” also makes a rest that many like. Robo Hippy posts on the Turners Forum on SMC.

    If one wants to sharpen fast Todd,
    I think “freehand” hollow grinding on a CBN wheel can create a bevel that just about anyone can “freehand” sharpen. Particularly if they start out working along the length of the edge. Maybe the “more advanced” sharpeners make the hollows and others just maintain those hollows.....

    I learned to make hollows, even cambered hollows, in plane blades first. Once I learned to touch those hollows up by hand, using hard, waterless, Spyderco stones. I found it easy to adjust to sharpening chisels and other tools regardless of whether there was a hollow grind or not. For me the immediate feedback on CBN wheels was what I needed to be able to actually see what was going on. Believe it or not the cost to my plane blades was negligible, as I could see immediate results.

    I have multiple blades for most of my most used planes, but those blades may have multiple cambers. As a result, unlike Brian above, I tend to sharpen as I go. Hitting 10>20 passes on a waterless stone usually does not slow my work progress down as much as a dull blade does. I find that not having to change the tool I have developed a feel for during the work may out weigh the time spent maintaining “sharpness”.

    I am currently experimenting with Buffalo hide and charged Buffalo hide as a method of maintaining sharpness vs grinding.
    Mike,

    Like you I sharpen as I go and seldom is a chisel needing a touch up put back in the rack. If your set up is like mine with the sharpening bench a step or two off the working end of the main bench and the stones are always out and ready sharpening takes no time away from working. If I were to use a jig it would slow the process and I expect I would end up working with less than optimum tools for no other reason than the hassle of jigging up the iron.

    Anyone who claims using a jig is faster than freehand either does not have a good set up or doesn’t have a clue.

    ken

  3. #48
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    This REALLY answers the OP question...doesn't it.....WOW...don't hold back, tell us how you really feel....

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by ken hatch View Post
    [edit]
    Anyone who claims using a jig is faster than freehand either does not have a good set up or doesn’t have a clue.

    ken
    Yes and no, the only honing guide in my shop is a rigged up blade holder from my power sharpening system. They are faster than freehand sharpening for reestablishing a bevel or to remove a big nick. For everyday sharpening freehand is faster. My blade holder is usually only used on a coarse ~320 grit. The holder is then removed with the remaining honing being done freehand.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bram de Jong View Post
    Hi all,

    Got the lovely honing guide from LN which is great for plane irons.
    However, most of my (old / second-hand) chisels are tapered...
    Are there any tricks for putting the tapered chisels into the honing guides?

    Bram
    If each chisel is tapered different, there isn't likely an easy trick for correcting this situation with a side clamping guide.

    Quote Originally Posted by steven c newman View Post
    This REALLY answers the OP question...doesn't it.....WOW...don't hold back, tell us how you really feel....
    The "trick" for the OP, quoted above, may be to learn freehand sharpening. That is my true feeling.

    jtk
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

  5. #50
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    Sorry Steven,
    Sometimes the “trick” may mean different methods. I sure wish I found methods which allowed me to sharpen faster sooner.

    I bought several similar devices to the ones mentioned by the OP, but I never use them. I think a good tool rest and angle setter for a grinder trumps the need for the devise the OP mentions. One might argue that the tool rest and angle setter on the grinder are doing the same thing as the OP’s devise on a coarser/faster mechanical devise.

    Ken,
    I use to have the “set up” you mention in my shop. Lately I have been moving, so I have my sharpening gear in a mobile kit. I am eager to get back to a similar “set up”.

  6. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Holbrook View Post
    Sorry Steven,
    Sometimes the “trick” may mean different methods. I sure wish I found methods which allowed me to sharpen faster sooner.

    I bought several similar devices to the ones mentioned by the OP, but I never use them. I think a good tool rest and angle setter for a grinder trumps the need for the devise the OP mentions. One might argue that the tool rest and angle setter on the grinder are doing the same thing as the OP’s devise on a coarser/faster mechanical devise.

    Ken,
    I use to have the “set up” you mention in my shop. Lately I have been moving, so I have my sharpening gear in a mobile kit. I am eager to get back to a similar “set up”.
    Mike,

    Good luck on finishing the move. It can be interesting working out of a travel kit .

    ken

  7. #52
    No doubt, but unlike a hobbyist, I work with students that range in experience from 'never touched a tool' to experienced woodworker. With no more than about 200 hours in the program, what works best is getting to sharp as quickly as possible, which is perhaps a 1 to 2 minute process with a reliable jig-based technique - fast enough in my view. I'd love all my students to develop further skills following completion, but they are already building an instrument better than anything else they are likely to find in most music stores, so that has to be the focus of instruction.

  8. #53
    We don't rack a dull tool, but that's a practice forced by having more than one person in the shop. I recall the Zen of honing in the evenings as well - it can be an enjoyable wind-down - just not something that works for me in the current student environment.

  9. #54
    Righty-tightie - lefty-loose works - that round thingie on the side of the jig can be used to tighten the jaws and the 'by design' slightly loose index pins and machine screw connections handle the rest. Anyone with at least average grip strength should not require the use of a screwdriver to bring things up tight. Student on Wednesday, but I'll try to get a video up explaining the operating principals at work.

  10. #55
    I'd suggest that those familiar with a side-clamping jig - the fastest of the common variety, IMO - can go from dull block plane in hand to sharp tool and back to work in a minute or less. My newb luthier students certainly can manage back to work in under 2 minutes, and few of them have any real hand tool woodworking skills when they arrive. I'd think the same might be true in terms of speed for someone with a reasonable degree of proficiency in so-called freehand honing. So it's really a case of priorities and time.

  11. #56
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    Sorry, late to the party. No one has mentioned the Richard Kell honing guide. I retrofitted mine with the ledger diameter wheels. That said, I only use it for chisels less than 1/4" wide. This is because that even with a lot of practice sharpening by hand, narrow chisels are difficult to get a proper register by feel across the narrow edge end. Otherwise it is much faster to quickly sharpen by hand.

    My sons both claim that for about a year, I was obsessed about practicing hand-sharpening and honing chisels and plane irons as sharp as humanly possible. Of course, reading sawmill creek did not help fuel that obsession at all!
    Last edited by allen long; 09-06-2018 at 12:57 AM. Reason: Revoved Redundant "That is"
    No, the sky is not falling - just chunks of it are.

  12. #57
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    There are so many great tools that just don't fit into jigs, and you need huge stones to use them. It's for these reasons that I feel jigs to be a true handicap. It also saves time as you're not needing to take things in and out of jigs, and adjusting them to angle references. You just go straight to the stone.

    People will gasp and stick their nose up at this suggestion, but:

    I really don't see the need for a honing jig at all. You also don't need a grinder / hollow grind. You can give a complete beginner a coarse stone and a chisel, a reference for 30 degrees, and have them go until they turn a burr. It doesn't even matter if they rock and make a convex bevel, or if they stay flat, or if they end at 30 degrees or 28 degrees or 32 degrees. As long as they remove the burr on the finish stone, it'll be sharp, and it'll work just fine. Maybe they don't go enough on the finer stone and it's not so sharp. Maybe they leave the burr on. Either way they'll quickly realize this and fix it.

    It's just not that hard. The main problem people have is setting up the chisel to begin with. But give anyone a well set up chisel and a coarse stone to start with and I think you'll find they have a very easy time of sharpening. My problems as a beginner were: My back wasn't perfectly flat, and the irons came with a huge microbevel / dubbed by some buffing wheel from the manufacturer (and I was starting on a #1000 grit stone, which wasn't coarse enough to get down to the edge quickly).

    Frustration begins when people start learning on stones that are too fine, and/or aren't flat. So, just get a coarse diamond plate for starters and some finer stones to follow up on.

    Edit: I can see how, if you're sharing tools, having them all sharpened inconsistently could be undesirable, though. If people are using their own personal tools, however, learning to sharpen freehand is a fundamental and very beneficial skill.
    Last edited by Luke Dupont; 09-06-2018 at 2:45 AM.

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