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Thread: Switching over

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Chase View Post
    Those coatings don't burn in do they? The OP specifically said that he does hand-rubbed finishes, so that may be a dealbreaker due to the risk of witness lines if he rubs across a coating boundary.

    In addition to the finishes John lists you might try Target EM6000, which does burn in and is more amenable to hand-rubbing IMO.

    I personally don't think that waterborne's match the "depth" of NC lacquer, but the best ones are pretty close. In terms of surface gloss and durability they already match or exceed NC lacquer, which actually isn't a terribly robust finish.
    No, the GF WB products don't burn in. I never rub out a WB finish so it has been a concern for me. Sorry if I misled the OP.

    John

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wayne Lomman View Post
    John, most of the products talked about here are not on the shelf in Australia. There are plenty of water borne finishes available but I find the ones I have tried don't work with stains in a way that is acceptable.
    This is a good point - Depending on the stain and the coating you may need an intermediate layer of shellac, which adds hassle to the process.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wayne Lomman View Post
    The cases where they do work are as stand-alone finishes. Gold Coast City Council chambers was clear finished. Various steel treetop walks I have done here in Australia used water-borne inorganic zinc. Correct me if I am wrong but it seems that the move to water borne finishes is driven by air quality concerns rather than by any advance in the quality of the finish that can be produced.
    Also convenience/safety, but in general I think that's right - the move to WB finishes is driven by factors other than quality of finish.

  3. #18
    I still use spray cans sometimes because they are better in one regard: no cleanup. For small things (like bowls) it's much more convenient that whipping out HVLP and then having to clean the gun. It sprays as easy as Deft.

    To this end, when I spray with HVLP - which is more and more - I have been using a waterbased finish: Enduro Clear Poly. It sprays super easy, cleans up well with water and soap, and has been pretty durable and reasonably clear.

    I usually spray sealcoat shellac followed by a couple coats of this. It makes for a thin, clear, amber, and protective topcoat that's easy to clean. I'd look into it.

  4. #19
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    If you don't have appropriate environmental controls for solvent based products it would be a really good idea to try some WB products. Folks get by in the warmer months by spraying NC lacquer, etc. outside or in their garage but, as noted, there are still issues with that like bugs, high RH, etc. Then come cold weather you're toast. You can spray WB indoors with a very low cost setup (but you still need exhaust), year round.

    As others have noted, most all research in the past 10+ years has gone into WB products. There are WB products comparable with most all solvent based counterparts now. They may require a little more effort to use them but it's not huge hill to climb. I've never found a situation yet where what I wanted to do couldn't be done with a WB product available to hobbiest. Pros have even more options. You want burn in? Look at Target Coatings products. You need a 2K Poly? Look at General Finishes or ChemCraft, and others I'm sure. You need a dye stain or spray/wipe stain? Lots of choices.

    John

  5. #20
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    So trying to drag this back to the OP's question:


    • Switching from Nitro in a can to Nitro from a gun will be more economical above a certain scale, though you're probably not there. At the same time, the up-front costs aren't anywhere near as daunting as some posters have made them sound. People do work on the scale you describe with "LVLP" guns on pancake compressors. Nitro also doesn't really require a precision engineered gun or high airflow to get good results, or else it wouldn't work as well as it does from a can with a $0.02 injection-molded nozzle and unregulated pressure. Think about it.
    • The gun adds a certain amount of cleanup, though again previous posters have blown this out of proportion IMO. Nitro is a friendly finish in that it can always be redissolved by lacquer thinner, so you don't have to clean as perfectly as with, say, a post-catalyzed urethane. Just get a cheap gravity gun and for routine cleaning flush it out with thinner at the end of the day. To reduce cleanup still further consider something like PPS, though that will compromise the economics.
    • As others have said, the big plus to the gun is the ability to make adjustments by thinning, tinting, adding retarders, etc etc. I would guess that you'll get results at least as good as the spray can by spraying un-thinned (or thinned to a fixed ratio to match the solids content of the can you've been using), but there's a lot of upside potential beyond that
    • Lacquer in general is nasty stuff, and using a gun opens the door to other alternatives, though to really make those viable you may need to invest in a better setup than you would for lacquer alone. For small low-volume work you can still make do with a small compressor, but you may need to step up to a better-made gun like a QualSpray or something in that range.
    Last edited by Patrick Chase; 05-19-2018 at 3:50 PM.

  6. #21
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
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    TX / LA border.. Toledo Bend
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    Lot's of good info, but I need to add I am in humid E tx, spray cheap plain nitro all summer.. often w retarder... and have sprayed w little trouble down to 40F in winter.

    Always in open driveway...rarely bug issues, but that can vary daily and by location

    Marc
    Last edited by Marc Jeske; 05-20-2018 at 2:50 AM.
    I'm pretty new here, not as as experienced as most. Please don't hesitate to correct me

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