Page 3 of 6 FirstFirst 123456 LastLast
Results 31 to 45 of 86

Thread: Euro slider vs cabinet saw

  1. #31
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Northern Oregon
    Posts
    1,820
    I vote for a vertical panel saw and cabinet saw even if space isn't a problem.
    I had a Safety Speed from 1970 to 2005. You get splinter free cuts with good blades. Now in my hobby wood shop, I use a vertical panel saw that I made. I get cutting accuracy of 1/64" straight, square and ready for edging, just like my old Safety Speed Cut.


    The vertical saws are the way to go for 1 person. You can store your sheets on edge and flip thru sheets on edge with less effort. I can slide sheets thru without scratching veneer faces. If you store sheet goods next to the panel saw it really minimizes panel handling effort.
    "Whether you think you can, or you think you can’t - you’re right."
    - Henry Ford

  2. #32
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Location
    Kamiah, ID
    Posts
    280
    To somewhat echo Martin's alternative.

    I caught the Euro slider bug a few months ago. After much agonizing I decided to stay with what I've got, which is a PM-66 and a vertical panel saw. Shop space would've dictated removing both of these for a slider. As much as I wanted the straight line rip capability of the slider I didn't want to give up the benefits of the vertical panel saw. One of the greatest benefits, to me, is that since my sheet goods storage is vertical, I can slide out a sheet and roll it into the panel saw never having to "lift" more than 1/2 a sheet at a time. Even though it's one of the lesser expensive panel saws I have taken the time to tweak and tune it properly and, with the correct blade, it will make perfectly square cuts (perfect enough for me anyhow, YMMV).

    The second major deciding factor was the rip capacity of the slider when used for straight lining. Even at 10'6" it is less than much of the raw lumber I get. My lumber supplier offers straight line for a reasonable price...less than I can do it in house actually.

    That said, if I ever decide to expand into my adjacent warehouse space a Euro slider would likely be one of my first purchases.

  3. #33
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Toronto Ontario
    Posts
    11,248
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan T Jones View Post
    Joe,
    I know this is a little off topic but what is the parallel cutting jig? I have a Hammer C41 but still use the fence to rip.
    Dan
    Dan, I'm not Joe however a parallel cutting jig is one or 2 extensions with a measuring scale and stop block, that are at right angles to the sliding table.

    You can also use one, and the crosscut fence to establish 2 stops that are a certain distance from the blade. Depending how you set them (parallel or offset) you can rip parallel pieces or tapers using only the sliding table...............Regards, Rod.

  4. #34
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Toronto Ontario
    Posts
    11,248
    Hello Jon, yes my short slider will crosscut a sheet of plywood.

    The outrigger supports the work piece during crosscutting or straight line ripping.

    I don't keep the outrigger on mine, however when I need to break down a piece of rough timber ( for example cut 3 feet off an 8 foot long timber) I use the outrigger. It takes about one minute to put the outrigger on.

    Remember that a rip fence only makes parallel cuts, you can't square up anything with a rip fence, the slider will square up stuff, and the outrigger is to support the weight.

    With the slider I don't need a RAS or a mitre saw.



    Yes, the main benefits are safety, capacity, accuracy, and space savings. In addition having a scoring saw makes absolutely flawless cuts on laminated, veneered or solid wood objects........Rod.

    P.S. here's a good video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eV8A3XK3R0I&t=762s
    Last edited by Rod Sheridan; 05-07-2018 at 1:57 PM.

  5. #35
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Phoenix AZ Area
    Posts
    2,505
    I still rip a fair amount with the fence. After a year ripping with the fence on the slider was no different for me than ripping on a cabinet saw. I don't get the concern other see with ripping with the fence on a sliding saw. The only thing is that when you see the precision you get when stock is clamped to the slider you will often choose to make cuts that way. The fence for me is used when cabinet saw rip precision is fine. I also joint 100% of the hardwood I rip.

  6. #36
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    SE PA - Central Bucks County
    Posts
    65,692
    Jon, I do most my my ripping using the wagon and a Fritz'nFranz jig at this point. I sometimes use the fence for some narrow stuff with it laid down in the short position and a push stick, but I've been moving more and more to the F&F for that now. Using the wagon give me a very good surface on the cut and that's important because I don't edge joint material much at all anymore...it comes right off the slider.
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  7. #37
    I'm a few days from powering up a used 5hp industrial sawstop I got used. I may add the sliding crosscut to it and see how I like it. I lust for a Minimax Elite 410 due to the 5 in 1 function and a 16" jointer/planer. It's a spendy machine though.

    My 2 car I don't think has the room for a slider. The old pm160 planer doesnt move and router table and jointer take up space. My hope is build a deep workshop when we move and maybe find a deal on a used slider eventually.

    The hammer K3 sure looks nice. I think I would still get at least a 2 in 1, slider with shaper.

  8. #38
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    SE PA - Central Bucks County
    Posts
    65,692
    Patrick, the space considerations for a Euro slider that are most difficult to meet in many small shops is in the direction parallel to the slider wagon. For example, my MiniMax S315WS with the 8'6" slider requires a minimum of 19' for full travel. Other brands with similar sized sliding operation will have similar requirements. Obviously, a short slider brings all the benefits except length for longer stock tied to the wagon, but there is an interesting workaround for that using a sled that rides in the hold-down slot that most sliders have on the top of the wagon. So your mention of hoping to have a "deeper" shop is a good thought if you want to move to a slider or combo with a slider in the future to take advantage of the larger capacities in a relatively compact space.
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  9. #39
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Colorado Springs
    Posts
    360
    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Becker View Post
    Jon, I do most my my ripping using the wagon and a Fritz'nFranz jig at this point. I sometimes use the fence for some narrow stuff with it laid down in the short position and a push stick, but I've been moving more and more to the F&F for that now. Using the wagon give me a very good surface on the cut and that's important because I don't edge joint material much at all anymore...it comes right off the slider.
    Thx Jim I’m rounding third in designing my shop and now wth this new potential idea curve balls are coming from everywhere.

    Jointer - could this be replaced w a slider completely? Right now it’s occupying a prime spot next to table saws in center cluster. If I don’t completely ditch it (I still see some functionality with lutherie) I could maybe put it on wheels on a side wall.

    Sliding CMS -the Makita is right now my favorite tool in shop. I really don’t see giving it up, esp for all of the compound miter cuts in boat building, but maybe I don’t need an entire wall with a SCM station anymore?

    Shaper - I just received an email from my local Felder rep with promotional pricing for saws plus saw/shaper combos. Having now had a sip of the koolaid I could be going deep under. How many of you are using the shaper combo and feedback?

    Air to slider - Steve (Extreme Woodworking) mentions in a video on his scoring blade that he didn’t have it on as the compressor was off. Do I need compressed air to the center of shop in my design? I can’t find anything from Felder brochure about air, just mechanical scoring blade w a belt.

    thx once again.

  10. #40
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    SE PA - Central Bucks County
    Posts
    65,692
    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Snider View Post

    Jointer - could this be replaced w a slider completely? Right now it’s occupying a prime spot next to table saws in center cluster. If I don’t completely ditch it (I still see some functionality with lutherie) I could maybe put it on wheels on a side wall.
    I absolutely use my jointer for flattening stock...I just rarely edge joint. IMHO, a jointer isn't optional. I use a J/P combo and batch flattening, so most of the time, it's in thicknessing mode.

    Sliding CMS -the Makita is right now my favorite tool in shop. I really don’t see giving it up, esp for all of the compound miter cuts in boat building, but maybe I don’t need an entire wall with a SCM station anymore?
    I use my CMS primarily for breaking down longer boards for processing into components with the J/P and slider. I wouldn't abandon the tool, but where/how it's used is always open for adjustment. I only have a fence on one side of my CMS at this point, for example.

    Shaper - I just received an email from my local Felder rep with promotional pricing for saws plus saw/shaper combos. Having now had a sip of the koolaid I could be going deep under. How many of you are using the shaper combo and feedback?
    Shapers have great value for certain operations. While I don't own one, there have been a few times when it would have been preferable over my "poor man's" shaper setup...which is a router and the Benchdog cast iron top at the end of my slider cabinet.

    Air to slider - Steve (Extreme Woodworking) mentions in a video on his scoring blade that he didn’t have it on as the compressor was off. Do I need compressed air to the center of shop in my design? I can’t find anything from Felder brochure about air, just mechanical scoring blade w a belt.
    No air is required for my MiniMax gear. Perhaps the Martin machine that Steve uses has a different setup. He does use air now for the very nice clamps he implemented, however.
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  11. #41
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Helensburgh, Australia
    Posts
    2,700
    I have found over quite a few years that a short slider which will cross cut a full sheet is perfect for me and actually takes up less space than a full sized cabinet saw if the cab saw has a 52" fence and out feed table. The infeed and outfeed length for both saws is the same for both saws. The chassis and and cross cut fence for the slider is no wider than a cabinet saw and if you want to make it smaller remove the outrigger or do as I did and don't buy the outrigger initially and see if you need it. I worked without an outrigger for some years before I was given a job that made buying it a necessity.

    I never use the rip fence to rip, at least I can't remember when I last did as the F&F jig basically removes the need. I have a short piece of rip fence mounted on the head and it is used strictly as a measuring stop when using the F&F jig. I bought a full length fence and cut it into 200mm lengths, kept one and sold the other three to owners who do the same thing. The rip fence has a Wixey DRO on it for repeatability purposes which works really well. If the saw is used in this way the use of a short fence is almost mandatory as the fence has to be shortened to pull it back and walking around it all the time is a PIA. If I do need the fence to rip it is a 30 second job to change it and no further calibration on the Wixey is needed.

    I too looked at the feasability of selling my mitre saw but I think it suits me better to keep it and I am not pushed for space as the workshop is fairly large, I already had the saw and I hate selling tools. I still think the introduction and use of the F&F jig has made the small slider the most versatile saw it is possible to use if you can afford one.
    Chris

    Everything I like is either illegal, immoral or fattening

  12. #42
    My Minimax SC2 is the center attraction in my basement shop, almost literally. I looked for a cabinet saw, but they are not common here like they are in the States. The choices were various grades of contractor saws or the sliders. The professional wood shops in my area use Martin or Felder sliders for production work. Most hobbyists make do with the contractor saws or small sliders.

    I can't rip a full sheet of plywood lengthwise in my shop, but this is due to the size of my shop and not the limitation of the SC2. The metric equivalent of a full sheet here is 1250x2500mm. The widest dimension in my shop is 4950mm, so there is no point in my shop where both ends of a sheet of plywood could pass lengthwise unless I oriented the saw diagonally. The center of the blade is almost exactly in the middle of the widest part of my shop, so I would need another 200mm on each side to pass a full sheet through. However, I have no problem crosscutting full sheets. My challenge is maneuvering the full sheets down the stairs. If I have to cut a full sheet lengthwise, I use my circular saw and track rails outside or in the garage on sawhorses and 15mm OSB.

  13. #43
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Colorado Springs
    Posts
    360
    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Becker View Post
    I absolutely use my jointer for flattening stock...I just rarely edge joint. IMHO, a jointer isn't optional. I use a J/P combo and batch flattening, so most of the time, it's in thicknessing mode.
    I use my CMS primarily for breaking down longer boards for processing into components with the J/P and slider. I wouldn't abandon the tool, but where/how it's used is always open for adjustment. I only have a fence on one side of my CMS at this point, for example.

    Shapers have great value for certain operations. While I don't own one, there have been a few times when it would have been preferable over my "poor man's" shaper setup...which is a router and the Benchdog cast iron top at the end of my slider cabinet.

    No air is required for my MiniMax gear. Perhaps the Martin machine that Steve uses has a different setup. He does use air now for the very nice clamps he implemented, however.
    Thanks for all the great info Jim. I clearly need sleep as in focusing on the edge I forgot about the face.

    How do other tools such as your router table or maybe my extra cabinet saw fit around a slider? It looks like from the videos and catalogs there is room for something level with the extension table of the slider on the opposite side (which could use that same table as it’s own outfeed). Planning ductwork spots under floor right now.

  14. #44
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Colorado Springs
    Posts
    360
    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Parks View Post
    I have found over quite a few years that a short slider which will cross cut a full sheet is perfect for me and actually takes up less space than a full sized cabinet saw if the cab saw has a 52" fence and out feed table. The infeed and outfeed length for both saws is the same for both saws. The chassis and and cross cut fence for the slider is no wider than a cabinet saw and if you want to make it smaller remove the outrigger or do as I did and don't buy the outrigger initially and see if you need it. I worked without an outrigger for some years before I was given a job that made buying it a necessity.

    I never use the rip fence to rip, at least I can't remember when I last did as the F&F jig basically removes the need. I have a short piece of rip fence mounted on the head and it is used strictly as a measuring stop when using the F&F jig. I bought a full length fence and cut it into 200mm lengths, kept one and sold the other three to owners who do the same thing. The rip fence has a Wixey DRO on it for repeatability purposes which works really well. If the saw is used in this way the use of a short fence is almost mandatory as the fence has to be shortened to pull it back and walking around it all the time is a PIA. If I do need the fence to rip it is a 30 second job to change it and no further calibration on the Wixey is needed.

    I too looked at the feasability of selling my mitre saw but I think it suits me better to keep it and I am not pushed for space as the workshop is fairly large, I already had the saw and I hate selling tools. I still think the introduction and use of the F&F jig has made the small slider the most versatile saw it is possible to use if you can afford one.
    Chris,

    G’day to you. We visited and surfed up and down the east coast of Aus a few years ago and can’t wait to get back. Wonderful country and people.

    If i’m starting to get this now (always possible I’m not) unless you’re using your rip fence in the traditional way, with any rips on the slider the rip length is limited by that slide. I do a lot of 6-10+’ rips (often with narrow stock) so I’m not clear on the value of a short slider , unless of course cost or that’s just all the room in a shop. At least for my application. Cabinets, some furniture certainly would likely be just fine.

  15. #45
    I bought the Hammer K3 with the 79" stroke, and 48" width, but think the 49" stroke with 48" width would work very well now. I do little with sheets, and find most of my projects are 48" or less. Thing is you can always crosscut your sheet, then rotate 90 degrees and rip with the rip fence. Your pieces will still be square. Do not give up the outrigger. The big clamp Hammer sells can be replaced with a small rectangle of steel and a Kreg T track clamp.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •