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Thread: Thompson full shank SRG with wings??? Spindle/detail with wings??

  1. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Grant Wilkinson View Post
    Brendan Stemp has a youtube video on his "winged" roughing gouge. You can see it here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3W10WqVuSGo
    Which begs the question - why not just use a winged bowl gouge in the same manner? I don't do a lot of spindle work, but most of the time I will use my bowl gouge for roughing the same way Brendan uses the SRG with wings. As to Henry's original question, other than how Brendan, and others I am sure, use a winged gouge for roughing I am not aware of any other uses. So, Henry, grind that sucker and report back on what you find out!

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  2. #17
    A different approach, which I had seen but forgotten about. You can do pretty much the same cut if you roll the standard SRG over on its side rather than having the flutes straight up. I was out in the shop last night roughing out a bunch of green end grain spindle/box/rolling pin blanks, and using my Big Ugly tool, which is a scraper. It works quite well. Flat on the tool rest for peeling cuts, and up on edge for shear cuts.

    Oh, the skew works well for peeling cuts as well.

    robo hippy

  3. #18
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    cross training

    Quote Originally Posted by Reed Gray View Post
    A different approach, which I had seen but forgotten about. You can do pretty much the same cut if you roll the standard SRG over on its side rather than having the flutes straight up. ...
    I think I mentioned above that the flat on the sides of some SRGs work very well for planing a cylinder, just like a skew. I often use a 1.25" skew for roughing a square spindle blank. I sometimes use the SRG for peeling a spindle to make a tenon. JKeeton sometimes uses a bowl gouge for roughing. I like a 3/8" spindle gouge in places on bowls and platters. The biggest Hunter tool is pretty good for roughing, shaping, then finish cuts on both spindles and face work. I hollow end grain with a parting tool. A bedan can be crazy flexible with some practice. I often switch tools several times during both initial cuts and when doing practice final cuts just too see how different tools work in that situation with that particular wood. Sometimes one tool will work best on maple but is horrible on osage orange.

    I think the moral of the story is there are many ways to use the tools we have. If we had just one tool in the shop we could still make things.

    JKJ

  4. #19
    I usually use a 1/2" bowl gouge for rouging spindles, sometimes a 1" spindle roughing gouge. I rarely use a 5/8" bowl gouge for anything, even larger bowls or roughing spindles; the 1/2" gouge can remove large amounts quickly. I do most work on platters and spindles with detail gouges.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by John K Jordan View Post
    I think I mentioned above that the flat on the sides of some SRGs work very well for planing a cylinder, just like a skew. I often use a 1.25" skew for roughing a square spindle blank. I sometimes use the SRG for peeling a spindle to make a tenon. JKeeton sometimes uses a bowl gouge for roughing. I like a 3/8" spindle gouge in places on bowls and platters. The biggest Hunter tool is pretty good for roughing, shaping, then finish cuts on both spindles and face work. I hollow end grain with a parting tool. A bedan can be crazy flexible with some practice. I often switch tools several times during both initial cuts and when doing practice final cuts just too see how different tools work in that situation with that particular wood. Sometimes one tool will work best on maple but is horrible on osage orange.

    I think the moral of the story is there are many ways to use the tools we have. If we had just one tool in the shop we could still make things.

    JKJ
    Yes exactly. This is really what my question is trying to get at. What does that shape excel at, what would it look like if ground in certain ways, how it would perform, etc.

    This is in order to learn, how the different geometric features that make up the overall shape of different tools affect how it can be used and how the grind can be shaped to suit that use.

    There are physical reasons, represented in the geometry of any given tool that make it do certain things when certain grinds are done on the end. For example there are geometric design elements that:


    • make a detail gouge work better with a more acute point
    • make a parabolic fluted bowl gouge work better with an ellsworth grind
    • make a spindle gouge better for coves with a more rounded, less acute nose.
    • make a u flute bowl gouge work better with "traditional" non swept winged grinds


    I have heard or read all of these things. Some by experts, some by experienced hobbyists. I have never heard anyone except Stuart Batty get into actually why the shape of a tool changes how it should and/or can be ground. I get that these are accepted truths and work, but I want to know why, so that I can take those concepts and apply them to any given tool based on how it is designed.

    To know these "whys" to me, means I can take a given shape and start messing with how it cuts, and see if I can expand the capabilities of a piece of metal that I own, in order to make it work for me better. I can do this because I theoretically learned how the different physical elements effect function. Or even more simply and honestly more importantly, I can buy a tool, and see, "oh, this has a slightly deeper, wider flute than other "U" gouges, it may be suited well for _______."

    I appreciate rules, but with any art or craft, you need to know the rules, so that you can eventually know how to break them. I do this for the art and the passion of chasing a mastery that I may never achieve. I have a personal need to be able to develop things that work for me. I am not saying I am inventing anything, as Bill Blasic seems to be snarkily suggesting. In fact, I am sure others have had this thought.

    I knew I had seen it somewhere, but forgot Brendan Stemp's name. But because I know others have actual anecdotal experience with how their different tools work for them...well...that is exactly why I am here asking what the underlying principles are behind doing such a thing. This leads really to my main goal here, which is to figure out what the best application would be for this Thompson deep fluted spindle gouge. It has a wide flute, slightly deeper than a normal Thompson spindle gouge. It seems to me that this would make it perform differently than a normal spindle gouge. If I knew how the wide, slightly deeper flute affected how it worked, then I could grind it and apply it where it was most useful to my workflow.

    I am really getting some good info from this, thanks y'all.

    Warm regards,
    Hank.

  6. #21
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    Thanks Reed I have no problem removing tons of stock with the conventional grind on the Thompson SRG flat or on its sides.

  7. #22
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    Dec 2017
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    I should say, the skew to me, is the easiest tool to use, and the easiest to understand why and how it works. It is just a flat edge with a skewed angle in order to create a point for reaching. I wish gouges made sense to me like the skew.

    I have different gouges with different grinds, some work well for me and some do not. I also go to do certain tasks sometimes, and find myself lacking the true perfect solution for me.

    It would be nice, to look at any of my gouges, see how it is geometrically shaped (deeper/shallower flute, wide flute/narrow, shape of flute, amount of steel under flute, etc) and then look at how it is ground, and be able to understand why it is working the way it is. Then, if it is not working how I want, I can decide how to try and change it's application to work how I want.

    It does me little good, to hear someone say that any given thing would not have many uses. The thing only has to A: have one use to me, and B: work well for that use.

  8. #23
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    I am not sure if you all have thought of this, but the wide circular shape of the SRG flute means that the type of chip that it takes is vastly different than a bowl gouge which, even with a "u" flute, has a very acute cutting area. A flatter section of the edge is contacting the wood with a tool fluted like an SRG. I am not sure if this means anything.

  9. #24
    I have tried bowl gouges on spindles, and still prefer the skew, SRG or Big Ugly, they just seem to work better. For any one going to the Symposium, do make a point to check out Eric Loffstrom. His peeling cuts, and approach to turning are 'different'...

    robo hippy

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Henry Neufeld View Post
    I am not sure if you all have thought of this, but the wide circular shape of the SRG flute means that the type of chip that it takes is vastly different than a bowl gouge which, even with a "u" flute, has a very acute cutting area. A flatter section of the edge is contacting the wood with a tool fluted like an SRG. I am not sure if this means anything.
    I have a 3/4" Sorby bowl gouge, which is almost an inch across. I have it sharpened with swept back wings, same as all my other bowl gouges. I tried using it in the "traditional" SRG fashion, handle down, flute up. It works OK, not as much wood removal as the regular 1" SRG. May be due to what you're saying. It's also a way different angle, that could have something to do with it. BUT, used with the bowl gouge fashion, handle level, flute leading the cut it does cut really well. Mush faster. So, if you do sharpen your SRG with the swept back wings, you could try using it like a bowl gouge on the side. Neither method removes wood as fast as my monster 2" PSI roughing gouge.

  11. #26
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    Dec 2017
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    Just spoke with Doug Thompson himself. Was as always an extended, and pleasurable conversation spanning subjects from tools, business, life, and of course turning.

    So I asked about the SRG that he sells. 1.25" across the flute, 3/4" round 2" tang. He told me that the people who actually end up buying them, will grind them into giant bowl roughing gouges. A very very huge bowl gouge! Neat!

    As I suspected, that huge piece of steel Doug sells is at least determined to be useful on bowls by pros who according to Doug "regularly turn and sell huge 36" inch plus bowls for $1000 and up"

    I would assume that in order to be used safely, the wings would have to be taken back, ground into a fingernail shape.

    Another thing Doug told me, is that his "bottom bowl gouges" used for finish cuts on the bottom of bowls, are actually 100% identical to a SRG shape: half circle flute, flat grind across the front, 60 degree bevel angle.

    All of this to me confirms that the shape of a tool does contribute to use applications, but does not necessarily put a hard limit on what a tool can be used for.

    What I really wanted was a tool that could be used for slicing cuts, like a skew, but could be used in a push or pull fashion on the outside of a bowl or hollow form. I very much like the results this kind of cut gives me, and to be able to apply this outside a bowl form would be superb for my workflow.
    Last edited by Henry Neufeld; 05-29-2018 at 5:38 PM.

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