GFCI advice

[John Lanciani]

Back in the 70's when GFI receptacles had a life span of maybe days to months, the GFI breakers were pretty reliable. The contractors I worked for quickly abandoned GFI receptacles and went to GFI breakers. Even though wiring the breakers back to the panel cost a bit more (code requires conduit throughout), they saved money not having to make call backs.

Just to clarify, the NEC absolutely DOES NOT require conduit for the above described situation. A very small minority of local jurisdictions do.

[John K Jordan]

Yes. In Chicago and most of the surrounding suburbs, conduit is required for all electrical installations. I think NYC also requires conduit but, like Chicago, the further away you get from there, the less likely they are to require conduit.

That sure is different in the central highlands in the middle of Mexico where I helped with a missionary's camp for children. From what I saw, there were NO requirements for electrical installations. Somewhere I have a photo of bare copper wires stapled a couple of inches apart carrying power up the wall to supply power overhead lights in a store in town. The wires were where any kid could touch or lean against them.

I also found a 100' run of 14ga wire draped in an attic, running from a 50 amp breaker to a water heater on the other corner of the building. It was several years before I could make it back with supplies to fix it (and some other problems). We should be thankful for our codes and inspections even if we don't always agree with the details.

JKJ

[Carlos Alvarez]

Yeah, it's regional. No indoor conduit here (outdoor is required of course).

[Bill Dufour]

I find that breaker type GFCI's last longer installed inside a nice dry indoor breaker box. the receptacle ones do not last two long outside in the wet outdoors outlet boxes.
You have to be careful as GFCI's are not rated to open if they are installed too near the main panel. At least the little ones used to need about 10-15 feet of wire run between the service entrance and the GFCI to meet code. Less then that and they could weld closed on overload
Bill D.

[John K Jordan]

I find that breaker type GFCI's last longer installed inside a nice dry indoor breaker box. the receptacle ones do not last two long outside in the wet outdoors outlet boxes.
You have to be careful as GFCI's are not rated to open if they are installed too near the main panel. At least the little ones used to need about 10-15 feet of wire run between the service entrance and the GFCI to meet code. Less then that and they could weld closed on overload
Bill D.

For more "anecdotal evidence", I have several GFCI receptacles that are outside in old style wet-location boxes. One is on a pole near my horse shelter and has a lamp cord plugged holding the cover open and the receptacle even gets wet in the driving rain. It's been functional now for at least 8 years. I do buy the best quality I can get, mostly from the industrial electrical supply. Maybe I'm just lucky.

JKJ

[Mike Henderson]

I'll add that I, too, have had very few problems with GFCI receptacles. I had an older one that would trip on my variable speed scroll saw, but a new GFCI fixed that. I haven't had any fail that I installed. I do purchase name brand GFCIs.

Of course, I haven't had as much experience as the electricians on this forum and my experience is more recent - not back to the 70's.

Mike

[Todd Mason-Darnell]

When I built my shop in 2010, I elected to put in GFCI on all of the 120V circuits.

Since then, I have gone back to add them to the circuits in the house. It is cheap insurance.

[Rollie Meyers]

GFCI's are required in garages & accessory buildings, for all 15 & 20A 120 volt receptacles, with no exceptions, the dedicated receptacles exception went away a number of NEC editions ago, and the GFCI's must be accessible, 240V circuits & hardwired 120V circuits do not require GFCI's, but if someone wants to use cheap shop lights that come with a cord & plug, the receptacles need GFCI's.

BTW, read there was a proposal for 240V circuits to require GFCI's, the proposal did not make it into the 2017 NEC, but expect it to resurface in future NEC editions.

[Mike Kreinhop]

My 2007 house has a 3-phase service and a GFCI device at the main breaker. This protects all circuits in and outside the house, but also results in the main breaker opening for any ground fault. So far, none of my single or 3-phase shop equipment has tripped the GFCI.

[Jim Dwight]

My roughly 50 year old house had a GFCI outlet in one bathroom but none in the others or the garage or the one outside outlet - which did not work. All the bathrooms now have GFCI outlets and the two circuits in my shop garage are both on a GFCI outlet. No issues with any of the GFCIs.

Three houses ago, in Pittsburgh PA, I used the front part of the garage in the basement for my shop. It had one outlet. My table saw kept tripping the GFCI in the hall bathroom two stories away. That one circuit served three bathrooms and the garage. I put in a 20A circuit (with GFCI) for the garage. Had to be in conduit because the walls were block. I didn't really know how to pull romex into conduit but it got done.

[Carlos Alvarez]

It's my understanding that Romex in conduit has to be de-rated by one gauge and generally should not be used? For outside runs here, I used separate conductors in conduit, which is our local standard.

My house has strange combined electrical service also. The GFCI and breaker for the downstairs bathroom also powers the garage lights and the outlet in the garage that serves the garage door opener. There is one additional dedicated 20a circuit for the water softener, so I run a lot of tools from that (by running SJ cord along the baseboard and providing power strips around the garage). I have two garages and both are seriously under-powered.

[Mike Henderson]

It's my understanding that Romex in conduit has to be de-rated by one gauge and generally should not be used? For outside runs here, I used separate conductors in conduit, which is our local standard.

My house has strange combined electrical service also. The GFCI and breaker for the downstairs bathroom also powers the garage lights and the outlet in the garage that serves the garage door opener. There is one additional dedicated 20a circuit for the water softener, so I run a lot of tools from that (by running SJ cord along the baseboard and providing power strips around the garage). I have two garages and both are seriously under-powered.

Tract houses often use the GFCI in the bathroom to protect the outlets in the garage. Personally, I think that's miserable because if you trip it, you can't hear the click of it tripping and the first time it happens, it takes you a while to figure out what happened.

They do that to save a few $ I guess.

Mike

[Carlos Alvarez]

I guess it's better than my friend's custom house that has the patio and garage on the same GFCI. Who would expect outlets that far apart to be on the same circuit?

[Andrew Seemann]

There was a time (80s maybe?) when GFCIs were still pretty spendy, and it was common to run several outlets downstream of them in disparate places like bathroom, garage, outside. I remember it being referenced in books. I think it became less common as GFCIs came down in price.

[Rollie Meyers]

]Tract houses often use the GFCI in the bathroom to protect the outlets in the garage.[/B] Personally, I think that's miserable because if you trip it, you can't hear the click of it tripping and the first time it happens, it takes you a while to figure out what happened.

They do that to save a few $ I guess.

Mike

Tract houses are built as cheap as they can get away with, I refuse to say they are built to minimum code. That being said, the NEC now requires a 20A circuit for bathroom receptacles, it can either serve all the bathroom receptacles in the entire house, or serve the lighting, and such for that bathroom.