Jointer noob

[Jim Morgan]

What you have described is a classic symptom of having the outfeed table set too high. An old-time method for setting knives was to set a board on the outfeed table and rotate the cutterhead by hand - each knife should move the board by about 1/8". As several others have suggested repeatedly, set the outfeed a little lower.

[Bill Space]

John,

First of all don’t give up. You will eventually resolve the issue.

Jack’s advice is rock solid. Set the outfeed table slightly lower than the blade tips at their apex and lock the setting there. The reason to do this is because the scallops caused by each blade cut leaves a little protrusion that points downward and the exit table must be lowered slightly to allow the workpiece to slide perfectly along it. I only came to understand this due to Jack’s comment above.

Next, verify that your infeed table is indeed coplaner with the outfeed table. Actually you may have to do this first, before finally setting the final position of the outfeed table.

Imagine that your infeed table were low on the input side(the end farthest from the cutting head). As you start to joint the piece, it will tend to pass the cutters and rise above the outfeed table. Then when you push down on the portion that is above the outfeed table, it will tend to pivot and raise the tail end off the infeed table to a point where the cutters may no longer take a bite. So you can get little or almost no material removed off the tail end. If this were the case, the solution would be to raise the end of the infeed table somewhat.

In my particular case I have noticed a situation similar to yours, where more material is removed on the leading edge. For me this has not been an issue as with 4/4 stock I can still joint one face and have enough material left to easily produce 3/4+ material. But I too want to correct this issue.

Some have claimed that tapering on the jointer is inherent to the tool, but I don’t subscribe to this idea... One workaround I have seen suggested is to alternate feed directions of the workpiece, so that you take more off each end on alternate passes. This may work but does not feel right, at least to me.

Anyway, don’t give up. Take a break and come back to the issue with a fresh mind in a few days. There are many people getting satisfactory results from their jointers, which is proof that you can too.

Edit: In my mind an infeed table that is high on the far end will result in the same issue, but the geometry is different. Solution is the same though, make the infeed table coplaner with the outfeed table.

Bill

[Mark Hennebury]

Thanks so much for all the feedback. I ran that same board through a few more passes and there is now a bit of a belly in the middle it seems, as i can see plenty of light on either side of the board on the end opposite where I put pressure on the straight edge. This seems to be because more material is being taken off the leading edge of the board. nothing is being taken off the back now unless i put pressure on the infeed side when running through. There is definitely something wrong with my jointer setup.

I set the blades slightly higher than my outfeed table (less than .001 higher). I used a straight edge and feeler gauges to set the infeed table coplanar with the outfeed (though I have moved both the infeed and outfeed table up and down since setting that up, so maybe I should double check that it is still in line. At the time I'd estimate all 4 corners were within .001.

I'm losing hope that I'll ever get this thing running right =/ Is anyone located in NJ who wants to help a fellow woodworker out?

Did you look at the photo that i posted? That's how jointer is set up. The amount of cut is determined by how much you lower the infeed table. Set the blade protrusion correctly according to the manual . set the outfeed table at or just below the TDC of the cutting circle. bring the infeed table up level wit the outfeed table and you wont cut anything, then lower the infeed table to the depth that you wish to cut. Lower the infeed 1/32" you will cut 1/32" of wood, lower the infeed 1/16" , you will cut 1/16" of wood etc..
drawing-inside-a-jointer.jpgTOOL-J9.jpg

[Andrew Hughes]

Be sure your adjusting the outfeed to the highest knife. Hope your working out the bugs with a fresh sharp edge.
Good luck

[Mel Fulks]

The slightly open ends with two edges together is kinda the standard position for many commercial shops. It is preferred by many over the climbing and 'running out of material' at the end of the cut produced by the "too high" table. Few find adjusting a jointer easy or enjoyable, that is why every problem has a standard "good enough" ...so much easier that accurate! An outfeed table that is adjusted by a stick is more difficult to get right than one with a wheel. The wheels can be calibrated ,then you know exactly how much you are moving it. That is why I know that climbing is caused by a table 1
and 1/2 thousandths too high ,not an easy adjustment to make on machines with the "stick". The calibrated wheel lets you
easily adjust the table. If there is a nick at the middle of the table I can drop it to face a wide board ,then after planing it
raise the table to get accurate closed end edge jointing.

[john schnyderite]

Thanks for the encouragement. i'll take a look at whether my tables are coplanar again or they've moved out of sync with other adjustments to the tables. Hopefully that is my issue.

By 'slightly lower than the blade tips', can you give me a number to shoot for? As I mentioned, outfeed is currently set half thousand to .001" lower than the highest point of the blades according to my digital gauge. Is that an appropriate amount? I hear many saying to lower the outfeed table, but no input on how low it should be.

John,

First of all don’t give up. You will eventually resolve the issue.

Jack’s advice is rock solid. Set the outfeed table slightly lower than the blade tips at their apex and lock the setting there. The reason to do this is because the scallops caused by each blade cut leaves a little protrusion that points downward and the exit table must be lowered slightly to allow the workpiece to slide perfectly along it. I only came to understand this due to Jack’s comment above.

Next, verify that your infeed table is indeed coplaner with the outfeed table. Actually you may have to do this first, before finally setting the final position of the outfeed table.

Imagine that your infeed table were low on the input side(the end farthest from the cutting head). As you start to joint the piece, it will tend to pass the cutters and rise above the outfeed table. Then when you push down on the portion that is above the outfeed table, it will tend to pivot and raise the tail end off the infeed table to a point where the cutters may no longer take a bite. So you can get little or almost no material removed off the tail end. If this were the case, the solution would be to raise the end of the infeed table somewhat.

In my particular case I have noticed a situation similar to yours, where more material is removed on the leading edge. For me this has not been an issue as with 4/4 stock I can still joint one face and have enough material left to easily produce 3/4+ material. But I too want to correct this issue.

Some have claimed that tapering on the jointer is inherent to the tool, but I don’t subscribe to this idea... One workaround I have seen suggested is to alternate feed directions of the workpiece, so that you take more off each end on alternate passes. This may work but does not feel right, at least to me.

Anyway, don’t give up. Take a break and come back to the issue with a fresh mind in a few days. There are many people getting satisfactory results from their jointers, which is proof that you can too.

Edit: In my mind an infeed table that is high on the far end will result in the same issue, but the geometry is different. Solution is the same though, make the infeed table coplaner with the outfeed table.

Bill

[johnny means]

I'd like to see someone do the actual math on the scallop depth idea. The flaw in that idea is the presumption that the user is feeding fast enough to leave each peak intact before making the next cut.

[Mel Fulks]

John ,the height has been addressed. They need to be the same. But it is easier and more practical to start with outfeed too low and raise it until it is exact. That is the way I season my food .....too much trouble to weigh it!!! As I said just a few minutes ago many prefer to avoid "climbing " by just keeping the outfeed table a little too low. But that makes joints that are open at the ends. A jointer needs adjustment according to present use and knife condition. That is why the front tabe is adjustable.

[Mark Hennebury]

Thanks for the encouragement. i'll take a look at whether my tables are coplanar again or they've moved out of sync with other adjustments to the tables. Hopefully that is my issue.

By 'slightly lower than the blade tips', can you give me a number to shoot for? As I mentioned, outfeed is currently set half thousand to .001" lower than the highest point of the blades according to my digital gauge. Is that an appropriate amount? I hear many saying to lower the outfeed table, but no input on how low it should be.

Post a photo of your machine showing the cutterhead, knife protrusion and tables as in the photo i have posted please, that might clear a lot up.

[Warren Lake]

I set my knives .050 above the head consistent to .0005. My head is parallel to the outfeed table. Just like Mel I drop the out feed, I snipe and bring it back up and test for now bow or gap. I stopped on the wood block thing 30 years ago. few test cuts and its dialed in, as you use it in some time it will change, for a spring joint raise a tiny bit and test. This stuff is assuming the machine is set up right and your technique is right and you understand the material.

[jack forsberg]

here is how i set the out feed table after knifes are set. so easy





if you want to see how i set and stone all the knifes to a perfect cutting circle dead nuts to the rear table within one 10th of a thou see part one

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdLJPLJdY2Q

[john schnyderite]

Thanks for that Jack. I did lower my outfeed table by another .003, and checked my tables for coplanar. I found the infeed side furthest from the knives to be a few thousands low. I adjusted and made a couple test passes. Definitely getting more contact on the trailing edge of the board. Still have a bit of a belly towards the middle of the board that i ran. Not sure if its me, the machine or it just needs a few more passes to straighten out. I'm going to check the blade height vs outfeed using the technique in your video and see how close I am and evaluate from there.

here is how i set the out feed table after knifes are set. so easy





if you want to see how i set and stone all the knifes to a perfect cutting circle dead nuts to the rear table within one 10th of a thou see part one

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdLJPLJdY2Q

[Steve Demuth]

I ran a smaller board though which had a bow. I ran it 'frown'-wise. Here are some photos of the result after 3-4 small passes. I focused pressure only on outfeed side while running though. It seems to take more material on the side that is run through first. The front of the board is already .1" thinner than the back side of the board though the bow makes it appear that material should be coming off the back too. I noticed this also when running longer boards.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/zTyvAxRbQGkgjmdt2

John,

It's hard to be sure without seeing the board before the first 3-4 passes, but there's nothing in those photos that very strongly suggests you have a problem. Given the very nasty knot on the trailing end of the board, it's not at all unlikely that most of the bow distortion in the board was at that end, and you're seeing the expected result. Before you adjust anything, I'd take a board that is already straight on one edge and determine if you get uniform stock removal when you joint that edge. That's easy to do - scribe a line 1/8" or so from the straight edge, and then joint the straight edge using shallow (< 1/16") cuts, looking at how the cut approaches your scribed line over several passes. If the edge approaches the scribed line uniformly, you're good. If it does not - if the leading edge approaches more quickly, then you probably need to lower the outfeed table a thousandth or so, or (unlikely, and don't go into fixing this unless you have the mechanical skills and tools to do so, because the possibility of making things worse are considerable) your tables are not coplanar.

[Andrew Hughes]

Im thinking the Op has a Dj20 that's had its cams fondled or it's been lifted and handled from the ends of the tables.
Until the tables are set back to coplaner there not much help or table up and down advise that's going to work.
I also think Jacks knife sharpening video is silly and pointless.
I also see a precision straight edge in your future.
Good luck

[Mel Fulks]

Andrew, Enjoyed your movie,but don't think those adjustment levers are much good for moving something a thousandth
at a time. But it might be useful for moving rubble off earth quake victims.