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Thread: Some saw accident numbers

  1. #1

    Some saw accident numbers

    A while back in 2009, the Consumer Product Safety Commission did a study about tablesaw accidents that I thought had some interesting facts in it. Before I go any further, though, let me be clear I am not a safety nazi, you are certainly free to use your tools any way you want. These are just statistics, and only describe what happens in large numbers of incidents - they say nothing about any future single accident. Nevertheless, I just thought this was some good food for thought.

    They had data available from hospital emergency rooms over 2007 and 2008. Over that period, the total number of table/bench powersaw accidents that were treated in emergency rooms was estimated to be 79,500. (The reason it is an estimate is because many accidents were just reported as "powersaw" accidents, so they the took the tablesaw/bench saw ratio and multiplied that by the number of unspecified ones and added that to the ones reported to get a total for tablesaws/bench saws.) Note these numbers do not include circular saws, bandsaws, radial arm saws, and mitre saws.

    The average age of those treated was 55.4 years, (the range was 11 to 94) and 97.4 percent were male - not too surprising.

    Of those accidents that reported the type of saw, 68.7 percent involved cabinet saws, 18.3 percent contractor saws, and 10.5 percent bench saws.

    78.8 percent of the saws did not have a safety switch, 75.0 percent of the saws had the blade guard removed, 20.4 per cent had a riving knife in use, and 24.4 per cent had a kickback pawl in use. In 85.7 percent of the cases, the saw was doing a rip cut.

    In 40.5 percent of the accidents the stock jumped or kickbacked. When stock kickback caused the injury, the operator’s hand was pulled into the saw in 65.2 percent of those cases.

    The motor was running in 94.5 percent of the cases (!) and a pushstick was used in 35.6 percent.

    Anyway, just thought those were some interesting numbers. You can look at the report yourself by clicking here.

  2. #2
    I would be most concerned with the 5.5% who were injured without the saw running.

  3. #3
    I hear you, but I know of someone who simply tripped over an extension cord and hit his head against the corner of his table saw.
    He wasn't treated in the ER, though - he went straight to the morgue. Tragic, freak accident.
    Last edited by Gary Liming; 04-26-2018 at 5:47 PM.

  4. #4
    The last wood working club I was in was fairly nuts about saw safety... While I was there - I know at least 1 member was kicked out of the club for chronic saw safety misconduct issues... But - it was for good reason and it's not like he was not warned and stopped over and over and over.. At some point, you gotta pull the plug on somebody - let them kill themselves at their house, not the club shop.... And I have witnessed that following good practices generally means the difference between a bruise and a horrible accident....

    And I can tell you - I know crazy stupid insane stuff does happen (like a fellow OD'ing on diabetes medicine and passing out while working) - but nobody is going to the hospital due to a saw mistake on my watch if I can help it...

  5. #5
    Things like that are why we can't take raw numbers and draw conclusions. Gary, I really like how you made that point at the beginning of your post. So few people realize that. "Alcohol was a factor in X% of traffic accidents" becomes meaningless when you realize it includes a guy being rear-ended by a sober person, but the victim had two drinks.

    Similarly we can't draw any conclusions from, say, the use of a riving knife or not. We know most accidents involved a saw without them. But without knowing how many people were NOT injured while using a saw without one, it has no meaning. It could actually turn out that as a rate, more accidents happen with one (unlikely, but possible). Likewise, did you know that motorcyclists wearing helmets are MUCH more likely to end up with a long hospital stay, physical therapy, and even long term injuries as compared to non-helmeted riders?

    I have a pretty firm belief that poorly-tuned saws cause most accidents. Ever since going to a very obsessive tuning process, I have had zero incidents or even near-incidents. Absolutely no drama. But nobody is able to track well-tuned saws versus maladjusted ones.

  6. #6
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    I am in favor of removing all injuries caused by failure to use good safety practices from the statistics and running the numbers again since these are NOT ACCIDENTS
    "A hen is only an egg's way of making another egg".


    – Samuel Butler

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by glenn bradley View Post
    I am in favor of removing all injuries caused by failure to use good safety practices from the statistics and running the numbers again since these are NOT ACCIDENTS
    How would you do that? Who would decide what is or is not a good safety practice? Some are obvious, some are not. There's disagreement on some details.

    I hate calling traffic collisions "accidents" because it really involves negligence almost every time. And there's no such thing as an accidental discharge of a firearm causing injury; you violated multiple CLEAR safety rules. For tools, some rules are not so clear and obvious.

    But you make a good point, most bad events aren't accidents, they are negligence.

  8. #8
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    I'm not trying to turn this into another SS Lovers vs SS Haters thread, but I suspect that if the data also included the brand of saw involved; some percentage of the injured parties were using a SawStop brand saw.

    It's easy to draw conclusions that are not necessarily supported by the data if we approach it with a certain bent.

    I'm struggling with this decision myself right now. I am ready to pull the trigger on a new 3 HP saw for my home shop. I've "pretty much" decided on a Grizzly G0690, but I still struggle. I (personal opinion only!) have a high level of disdain for much of what I have read of Mr. Gass' attempts to force his technology on other manufacturers and I can't support his company. That said, I guess it really isn't his company any more, but my understanding is that he still owns the patents on the intellectual property of the safety system.

    I used to work in EMS, so I know all about the catastrophic injuries our tools can cause. I also know that I have been using table saws since 8th grade without a single incident.

    I find myself in a quandary...

    Scott

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by John Redford View Post
    I would be most concerned with the 5.5% who were injured without the saw running.
    My only tablesaw-related injury happened when the saw wasn't running. In fact it wasn't plugged in and there was no blade installed. I was cleaning the goo off the cast iron top of my new saw using paper towels soaked with mineral spirits. As I was wiping out one of the miter gauge slots I got a couple of cuts in the tip of my index finger from burs left in the slot by the machining process. Of course I didn't go to the ER or report the injury. Mineral spirits in an open wound stings. I uttered a few bad words and cleaned up the burs before continuing to clean the saw.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Brader View Post
    but I suspect that if the data also included the brand of saw involved; some percentage of the injured parties were using a SawStop brand saw.
    The original post had this:

    "78.8 percent of the saws did not have a safety switch"

    I *assume* that means the others were a Saw Stop? Dunno, what else could "safety switch" mean here? At the same time, someone could have been injured while tripping over the Saw Stop's cord, and it would count as a Saw Stop related injury.


  11. #11
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    Safety switch may be a large paddle type switch you can bump off.

    MK

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Mikail Khan View Post
    Safety switch may be a large paddle type switch you can bump off.

    MK
    Very possible also, although that would be unlikely to help, I think. I get the impression that TS injuries happen in a split second.

  13. #13
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    That was my only injury on a cabinet saw.

    I was cutting tenons using the tenoning jig.

    I looked down and there was a large pool of blood on the saw.

    I checked and I still had all my digits and didn't feel anything, I couldn't determine where the blood was coming from until I fully extended my fingers and it began spraying from the palm of my hand.

    I had cut myself on a piece of chrome plating that had partially come off the handwheel on the jig, and was razor sharp. It had cut about 3mm deep along my palm, with no resulting pain.

    The saw wasn't running when I clamped the piece in the jig and sliced myself.

    No, I didn't report the accident...........Regards, Rod.

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    I give this thread another 12 hours before it gets locked.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Carlos Alvarez View Post

    Likewise, did you know that motorcyclists wearing helmets are MUCH more likely to end up with a long hospital stay, physical therapy, and even long term injuries as compared to non-helmeted riders?

    I have a pretty firm belief that poorly-tuned saws cause most accidents. Ever since going to a very obsessive tuning process, I have had zero incidents or even near-incidents. Absolutely no drama. But nobody is able to track well-tuned saws versus maladjusted ones.
    Yes, more riders with helmets have longer hospital stays, as a former riding instructor I know why, they survive the initial collision.

    Similarly we know from industrial accidents that lack of guards is the major factor in entanglement incidents.

    Note, not accidents as I have only seen one industrial accident in 40 years, however I have been involved in the investigation of many incidents.

    Regards, Rod.

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