Wadkin PK. One of the best table saws gets to live another life

[Matt Mattingley]

Jack and Dave know more about double row self aligning bronze cage bearings, then I’ll ever plead to.

I replaced SKF with Hoffman. I replaced the front and back motor bearings. This ran me almost C$300 with shipping and taxes... The replacements were both Hoffman bronze cage self aligning bearings. My quote on SKF Old stock was running US$300 for the front bearing and US$200 for the back in North America.

So just refurbish as you see fit. Let your journey enjoy your pocket book. Time is not of an essence if you have desire and patients!

[jack forsberg]

Jack and Dave know more about double row self aligning bronze cage bearings, then I’ll ever plead to.

I replaced SKF with Hoffman. I replaced the front and back motor bearings. This ran me almost C$300 with shipping and taxes... The replacements were both Hoffman bronze cage self aligning bearings. My quote on SKF Old stock was running US$300 for the front bearing and US$200 for the back in North America.

So just refurbish as you see fit. Let your journey enjoy your pocket book. Time is not of an essence if you have desire and patients!

I’ll just add these bearings are all Obsolete and the RLS bearings are inch bearing Not metric. R stands for inch . These ones are the rarest and take a while to hunt down old stock . There is one last recourse to have continental bearing make them. Hold onto your hat though.

[David Kumm]

The bearings on the other motor type for the PK are much easier to source as they are common metric sizes. Sourcing bearings is one of the few areas where the internet has vastly improved life. Dave

[Mike Delyster]

Looking great Matt.

I look forward to seeing you cross the finish line with your PK refurb.

[Patrick McCarthy]

Dave, Matt and Jack,

I am really enjoying the learning curve here. You guys are way over my head and pay grade, but reading the discussion helps me become aware of things I didn't even know existed. Thank you all. Patrick

[jack forsberg]

Dave, Matt and Jack,

I am really enjoying the learning curve here. You guys are way over my head and pay grade, but reading the discussion helps me become aware of things I didn't even know existed. Thank you all. Patrick

what compounds a rebuild of old English Wadkin kit (English word for machine ) is the way they were made . For one BSW (British standard whithworth ) threads were used well into the 70s ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Britis...dard_Whitworth ) and the bolts were made in the factory as well so each one can be a different length and special head size . Machines were built in batches of 10 to 20 and each hand fitted and scraped in . Parts from one machine may not be dead nuts on another if fitted . this was the British way and still the practiced building the Rolls and the Bentley this way today .
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the fitting bay at Green Lane factory Wadkin

all machine went through the test department at wadkin and machine were run through and calibration made before leaving the factory . all Wadkin machine have a test number and this is how they are dated .

Wadkin Works 02.jpg

the PK is a very old model that went through many changes over its 40 years of production . this is the very early line belt P family of saw to start it off. the first letter is the family the second is the model a 3rd letter was for drive type as Wadkin would supply AC or DC as well as line belts in and frequency or voltage . this 3rd letter was drop in the 50s when line belt was no long in the catalogs. eg PKA was an AC electric drive . Matt Matt,s is a generation 4 and the zenith of the PK model saws .

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[Matt Mattingley]

Jack, I do believe my saw to your saw was a small transition stage. You and I both got the better motor. I think you got the new and improved adjustable angle deg° pointer. I believe our machines were made 15ish apart.
Edit; this is a copy paste of John’s list...

PK 1702 of 1954 (test 49379) - Matt Matt (Canada);
PK 1718 of 1954 (test 49784) - J Forsberg (Canada);

[jack forsberg]

Jack, I do believe my saw to your saw was a small transition stage. You and I both got the better motor. I think you got the new and improved adjustable angle deg° pointer. I believe our machines were made 15ish apart.
Edit; this is a copy paste of John’s list...

PK 1702 of 1954 (test 49379) - Matt Matt (Canada);
PK 1718 of 1954 (test 49784) - J Forsberg (Canada);

Yes our saws appear to be 16 machines a part. In fact it is conceivable they were on the factory floor together in the same batch . Although the test numbers reveal 405 machines went through the test department between our two saws . Approximately 2000 machines were produced yearly out of green lane works. So it appears my saw only sat in the store for three months when that change was developed.

[Matt Mattingley]

Yes our saws appear to be 16 machines a part. In fact it is conceivable they were on the factory floor together in the same batch . Although the test numbers reveal 405 machines went through the test department between our two saws . Approximately 2000 machines were produced yearly out of green lane works. So it appears my saw only sat in the store for three months when that change was developed.

Jack, even though I believe in some of your theories. I do believe some of your theories could be wrong. I call this the chicken or egg.

For example, the etching on the table was it done to quadrant specifications... or was the quadrant machined to the table etching? Surely there is tolerance take up and realignment in any machine. After carefully analyzing all my numbers, my motor was out of alignment mine motor is out 0.003 to the natural state of the fence. I would consider this not that bad as my reference area is 14 inches( and machine 70+ years old). I did take all fence grub screws for alignment out. Fence grub screws are used for micro adjustment.

[jack forsberg]

Jack, even though I believe in some of your theories. I do believe some of your theories could be wrong. I call this the chicken or egg.

For example, the etching on the table was it done to quadrant specifications... or was the quadrant machined to the table etching? Surely there is tolerance take up and realignment in any machine. After carefully analyzing all my numbers, my motor was out of alignment mine motor is out 0.003 to the natural state of the fence. I would consider this not that bad as my reference area is 14 inches( and machine 70+ years old). I did take all fence grub screws for alignment out. Fence grub screws are used for micro adjustment.

lets start with this catalog cut of the fitting room at Wadkin LTD (AKA Green Lane Works ) dated from the 50s of the PK tables being set in the batch production method .

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I am going to say that the tables were already prepared as a unit with etchings and calibrated double miter offsite by Chesterman of Bow works.

https://www.gracesguide.co.uk/James_Chesterman_and_Co

This is of course after the entire table was surface ground as a unit. PRECISION HERE IS SUPPORTED by the infill strip letter stamped screws.That's about as anal as it gets in precision to make sure the screws that were ground with the table top go back in the same spot. lastly and this is just my opinion is that the in bedded hardened steel strip that support the roller bearing of the slider cartage are ground parallel after the top is done . Catalog documents of the facilities for grinding as State of the art in what was called a cube fixture set up.There would be far too much risk for error in a complete machine to discover Alignment issues in the test department.
The motor would be installed prior to the table and be set up on the axis of the trunnions. The entire machining of the tilting blade flask would have used the trunnion as it’s datum zero. The motor would therefore be set up off of this bench mark . To support this theory The body design supports this by having trunnion support separate and Dowel pins and dialed to the base top .Of course this makes the most sense as the blade has to traverse the rise and fall parallel to the rise and fall machined Ways .

You can clearly see the sliding table sitting atop the main tables As the machinist fits the tops of the PK. This photo suggests batches are kept together and pre-fitted. You will also notice that the tables on all of the pk Have a single C clamp in the bolt pin location by the crown guard support. These suggest the table is locked and rotated in the plane with the trunnion axis. Therefore it is fallacious To use the fence plate to set up the motor. Clearly the table has been set up to take account for run out. Lastly it would not make sense in production standards for Wadkin to do a set up to where They would have to remove the top to correct an motor alignment issue. The main table is built with the T-slot as a 90° registration and perpendicular to the milled edge to which the sliding table abutts.

[David Kumm]

As you both know, my PK was a very late model and we have speculated it may have been built by assembling left over parts in inventory. I do not believe it was hand fitted by the factory like the others. There was no way the motor and arbor lined up to the table using the dowel pins on the top or on the motor. Setting the fixed table correctly would allow for most of the sliding table to be etched and drilled independently but I have no clue whether it was. I just know my machine did not go through the final fitting like others and someone used it for 50+ years set up poorly. I ran into a similar issue with my Porter 300. The owner never understood how to set the tables with the spring joint mechanism and used a million shims but complained he never got a great cut from it. I removed the shims and set the tables with two dial indicators and an 8' straight edge and it has been perfect since.

My point to anyone rehabbing machines is : Don't assume the machine was set up or repaired correctly. Don't assume anything. I've even seen improper bearings installed due to the different nomanclature used on some old bearings. That is why these threads become so important when researching. A huge benefit of a PK over a Robinson or Whitney is the amount of info available detailing the build. I have none of that detail for my other saws. Dave

[jack forsberg]

As you both know, my PK was a very late model and we have speculated it may have been built by assembling left over parts in inventory. I do not believe it was hand fitted by the factory like the others. There was no way the motor and arbor lined up to the table using the dowel pins on the top or on the motor. Setting the fixed table correctly would allow for most of the sliding table to be etched and drilled independently but I have no clue whether it was. I just know my machine did not go through the final fitting like others and someone used it for 50+ years set up poorly. I ran into a similar issue with my Porter 300. The owner never understood how to set the tables with the spring joint mechanism and used a million shims but complained he never got a great cut from it. I removed the shims and set the tables with two dial indicators and an 8' straight edge and it has been perfect since.

My point to anyone rehabbing machines is : Don't assume the machine was set up or repaired correctly. Don't assume anything. I've even seen improper bearings installed due to the different nomanclature used on some old bearings. That is why these threads become so important when researching. A huge benefit of a PK over a Robinson or Whitney is the amount of info available detailing the build. I have none of that detail for my other saws. Dave

in part Dave it was yours and others latter machines that lead me to how much these machines were fitted at one time . Now when i say fitted i mean to a standard of metal machine tools . This was the claim of Wadkin LTD and its Woodworking machines that they were built to this standard . Wadkin also made Metal working machines as well and this is lesser know .

wadkinmill.jpg

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Photo taken c.1977 in the Gun Shop at Hunslet Engine Co, Jack Lane Leeds.

If the machine looks low it is because it is set into a pit 30 inches below the ground, as the height was constricted due to the overhead crane.

The machine was new in 1976 and the first of its type from Wadkin costing £750,000.

The photo shows the right-angle head with a milling cutter taking the edge off the frame of a Rack and Pinion Mines loco

one of these mills just sold

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[Rod Sheridan]

I’m in a set up right now using the fence to indicate blade run out and arbour alignment.

But here is a little entertaining video for you. 17 3/4” versus 7 1/4“

I see the problem Matt, your Nicholson blade is a left hand one. You need a right hand blade unless you want to stand at the back of the saw,

Nice restoration..............Rod.

[Matt Mattingley]

I see the problem Matt, your Nicholson blade is a left hand one. You need a right hand blade unless you want to stand at the back of the saw,

Nice restoration..............Rod.

have you thought for a second it might be the scoring blade??? LOL. Just having fun, PK’s don’t have a scoring blade. LOL. Maybe this is a new employment LOL?

[David Kumm]

Here is the arbor nut Matt made for me in Brass. Like jewelry. It is the original size. DSCN3594.jpgDSCN3595.jpg I had one made that was larger as my original was larger and i matched it. I don't have the double quadrant but use a digital crosscut fence. I used two existing holes but made an eccentric bushing for one. The crosscut fence slips into the T bolts. DSCN3596.jpgDSCN3597.jpg Dave