Sherwood Precat Orange Peel

[Tom Dovan]

I'm finishing up a walnut entertainment cabinet. I first used water-based dye, then sealed with shellac. I then glazed with gel stain. At this stage it looked great! The top coat is where it went bad. I know it's operator error. I used Sherwood precat Hi-bild gloss laquer. Sprayed with fuji HVLP. At first it looked great but after 2 coats and close inspection it has a subtle orange peel. I have already started sanding it down with 400 grit and despite being careful I have sanded thru some of the gel stain and probably dye. My plan now is to sand the entire project down with 120 grit on a random orbit sander, then hand sand with 150 grit trying to remove as much finish as possible. I suspect there will be varying levels of lacquer remaining especially in the pores since I did not use a filler. So my question is:

1. Can I go from the 150 step to dye/shellac/gel stain/then top coat (Planning on a wipe op poly - I'm not good enough with the gun.

2. After the 150 sanding, should I shellac 1st for better adhesion over any laquer that my be remaining, then dye/shellac/gel stain/wipe on poly. I assume with this route the dye won't penetrate well because of the shellac.

Thanks in advance for any advice!

Tom

[John TenEyck]

I never like to sand what I've already sanded. Chemical stripper is far easier for removing finish and getting it out of the pores than sanding. So I would strip it and then give it a light hand sanding with 150 grit and start anew with the new finish, per your schedule 1.

John

[Steve Schoene]

I agree with John. I also question using shellac sealer. Sherwin Williams product data sheet calls for either self sealing which would be over bare wood or on of their catalyzed vinyl sealers. Product numbers are given on the product data sheet. Shellac usually is OK under topcoats, but remember this is a more complex chemistry than standard consumer grade finishes.

[Wayne Lomman]

Firstly, you have given up too soon. It takes more than 2 coats to get enough build to get a good gloss finish. Gloss shows every tiny defect and so takes more effort. You only get good with a spray gun through practice so have another go.

Have you attempted a repair with a pencil brush and a brew of your colours, some lacquer and solvent. If it works, great. If not, you were going to sand anyway.

The orange peel is most likely caused by the lacquer viscosity being too high. Thin it a bit. Anywhere up to 25% could be required. This also means you can apply more coats and keep the film build within the manufacturers specifications. As I said, 2 coats was never going to be enough.

Do you really want full gloss? 60% gloss still gleams and is far more forgiving.

You are not going to have adhesion problems with your rework. You are going to be using dye, gel and hopefully lacquer again. If its poly, still no problem. These are all compatible. Shellac is extra work you don't need. The traces still in the grain will have a minor impact on the appearance of the stain. Just ensure you sand everything evenly. Cheers

[Tom Dovan]

Thanks guys. What chemical stripper do you recommend for precat lacquer?

[Tom Dovan]

That's a great thought. One of my reasons for starting over was that I was planning on rubbing down the gloss for a satin sheen. When I did this, it removed the orange peel but the grain/pores where still gloss and that doesn't look good. I could try to repair stain sanded thru areas and final coat with dull rubbed precat laquer.

[Patrick Chase]

Thanks guys. What chemical stripper do you recommend for precat lacquer?

Either Methylene Chloride (fast) or N-Methyl 2-Pyrrolidone (NMP, slow, safer to apply). Acetone will remove uncatalyzed lacquers but you'll want something stronger for precat.

[John TenEyck]

If you end up needing to strip it I recommend KleanStrip Premium. Follow the safety guidelines and you'll be fine.

John

[Wayne Lomman]

Gloss lacquers are actually more difficult to work with. The flatting agents in lower gloss products have the side effect of making sanding easier. Gloss highlights every defect whether in the timber or the finish. Gloss is favoured by hand polishers as it is tricky to get a streak free satin finish. Spray polishing does away with the traditional arguments for using gloss. Cheers

[Patrick Chase]

If you end up needing to strip it I recommend KleanStrip Premium. Follow the safety guidelines and you'll be fine.

KleanStrip Premium is >60% Methylene Chloride (see section 3 in the SDS) so that would definitely do the trick. I would wear respiratory protection with that stuff.

[Travis Porter]

I recently sprayed precat with my Fuji, and I too had orange peel. The solution was to thin by 10% for me and it laid down like glass. I would think you will still need to rub it out to get a quality high gloss finish.

i would think you should be able to level it out. Don’t give up too quick on the precat. It is great stuff once you get the hang of it. I think the Fuji causes it to dry too quick from heating the air hence the need to thin, and I really did not want to thin.

best wishes