Laguna DB12 (vertical sander) review request

[Frank Drackman]

I want to get out of the group because it's totally muddy what you are paying for. If you pay a bit more are you getting better quality control or not? Are you only literally getting a new paint job and different stickers, etc?

It's an endless debate. Everyone has an opinion, but it doesn't seem like anyone knows. I think I have the money to get away from that group entirely, but maybe I'm wrong. I was thinking a brand like Laguna looks like they are 'above' that group. I could be wrong. I've never really looked into their company before.

As someone who has run multiple programs making hardware in Asia I find it funny when people think that if an item is made in the same factory it must be the same product in a different color. The customer defines the quality in the specifications, tolerances and testing program.

The first point that greatly affects the quality is if the customer company actually has people on the ground in the factory. If the factory is the only party qualifying the machines you can be sure that the quality will slip.

We had products that we wanted extremely high quality so the first few hundred machines were destroyed in the testing process. No revenue at all, just taken apart to see if everything met the specs. The next step would be to do the same with a certain number of the next 500 machines, and so on.

The quality of the tooling is also very important. The customer purchases the tooling and there are many different quality points. This is where you see the fit & finish issues. If the tooling has loose tolerances the machines will have loose tolerances.

[Carlos Alvarez]

As someone who has run multiple programs making hardware in Asia I find it funny when people think that if an item is made in the same factory it must be the same product in a different color. The customer defines the quality in the specifications, tolerances and testing program.

The first point that greatly affects the quality is if the customer company actually has people on the ground in the factory. If the factory is the only party qualifying the machines you can be sure that the quality will slip.

We had products that we wanted extremely high quality so the first few hundred machines were destroyed in the testing process. No revenue at all, just taken apart to see if everything met the specs. The next step would be to do the same with a certain number of the next 500 machines, and so on.

The quality of the tooling is also very important. The customer purchases the tooling and there are many different quality points. This is where you see the fit & finish issues. If the tooling has loose tolerances the machines will have loose tolerances.

A friend invented and started making a pretty cool motorcycle accessory long ago. He visited several factories and picked one. Stuck around to see beautiful product being made and passing all tests. Goes home, and his next container of product is mostly junk. They cut every corner they could when he wasn't looking. Sent a guy to babysit them, and the shipments started arriving in pretty good shape, though you could actually see the date codes of bad parts match the days his guy was not on site.

Then he found a clone online for half price. It was identical to the junk product he got early on when he wasn't babysitting. The factory ran another shift using his design but with all the corners cut, and started selling them to someone else to resell in the US.

[andrew whicker]

So we agree then. We factually don't know what we are paying for. I assume Jet has a higher quality standard, but how much higher? Etc, etc.

Anyway, I was trying to see if anyone had any direct experience with the Laguna machine or knew much about it. Since this tool quality debate is endless and never backed up (obviously) with mfg tolerances and specs for each given OEM, then we are left using apocryphal data, personal stories and just generic statements like: "XYZ has better quality control" which is impossible to tie to a specific dollar amount. "Okay, so XYZ has 'higher' quality, but is it worth $600 more?". Anyway, none of this can be answered and you either have horror stories or success stories, none of which help a potential buyer.

The general might be a good buy. Looks like it sells new in the $1200 price range.

[Carlos Alvarez]

So we agree then. We factually don't know what we are paying for. I assume Jet has a higher quality standard, but how much higher? Etc, etc.

Anyway, I was trying to see if anyone had any direct experience with the Laguna machine or knew much about it. Since this tool quality debate is endless and never backed up (obviously) with mfg tolerances and specs for each given OEM, then we are left using apocryphal data, personal stories and just generic statements like: "XYZ has better quality control" which is impossible to tie to a specific dollar amount. "Okay, so XYZ has 'higher' quality, but is it worth $600 more?". Anyway, none of this can be answered and you either have horror stories or success stories, none of which help a potential buyer.

The general might be a good buy. Looks like it sells new in the $1200 price range.

Yeah, I don't think anyone really knows. And then there are so many factors...

Commercial or home use?
Do you maintain it?
Do you maintain it really well?
How is your power (low voltage == STRESS!!)?
How is your DC? Dirty tools = wear.
Do you use good supplies like sanding belts or junk and then blame the machine?

Etc.

I have many years on a Jet 18" BS, 22-44 drum sander, and 6" jointer. I'm happy with all of them. I did a set of bearings on the BS once, and consider that normal and cheap maintenance. I use top-quality blades, and I use Jet brand abrasives in the drum sander. I regularly tune them up. Others may not. And others may claim that a "better" tool doesn't need as much tuning and maintenance. Dunno. It's not a production shop, so I'm happy to grab a beer and a cigar and "waste" some time tuning a machine. It's fun.

I had an out-of-the-box issue with my Powermatic drill press. QC issue? Or shipping problem? Or because it was a floor demo at the store? Dunno, but PM squared it away instantly.

Anyway, I have no hesitation buying either Jet or Powermatic. Delta puts me off a bit, never been impressed with the service. The PM drill press replaced a Delta that always had an issue they said was "within tolerance."

[Mike Kees]

Andrew I own the General International sander that you were looking at in the add. It is a good basic machine. That one is made in Taiwan and the price here in Alberta is around 1100 Canadian dollars new,roughly 800 U.S. So I would say that price is to high(the used one).I purchased mine secondhand but it had never been used for 700. That was the asking price and I paid it,because I was buying it from a woman who had just lost her husband. I would also recommend an edge sander over the combo.Mike.

[Martin Wasner]

Eh, it's 1.5, not 15. Look at that little motor.

On the other hand, wonder what the HP is on this motor...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Oakley-H5-3...oAAOSwnVhaMtM1

10 hp main motor probably and a 2 hp oscillation motor. Tough to beat 3k+ pounds of cast iron

[Martin Wasner]

I've got a spare dust hood for an H5 if somebody is looking for one. It's only got a 4" port on it though. The replacement for it I had made has a 6" on it

[Frank Drackman]

Yes that stuff happens. That is why I stressed that the best thing you can do is have your people onsite. It also helps if the factory views you as an important customer.