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Thread: Electric Fence question

  1. #1

    Electric Fence question

    Got the Electric Fence set up in the Backyard to keep the animals and the Dog out of the Garden. Here is the problem.....

    The Fencer says it does not need a Ground rod. I tried it with a Copper rod driven into the ground , and there was no electric going through the wire. So, I did it without the Ground rod. Used wood stakes to tie the wire around . When I got done, I plugged the fencer in. Grabbed a hold of the wire to see if it was fired up !! YEP !! it works!! Well, my Labrador Retriever plodded on over like a Work Horse to see what all the fuss was about. I figured he would stop once he got a zap.... NOPE!! He just stepped OVER the wire, and then proceeded to SIT ON THE ELECTRIC FENCE WIRE!!!

    NOTHING!!! No Zap, tingle, nothing!!! He gets up and touches his nose to it, He just walked away..

    Is this electric fencer defective ? Do I need a bigger charger???

  2. #2
    I went over to the 2nd wood stake to test the wire. No power...

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Location
    Elmodel, Ga.
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    798
    You probably need insulators on each stake. If there is any moisture in the wood, it will ground itself and will not work. I've farmed all my life and we used electric fences for cattle, hogs, horses, etc. and I have never seen or heard of one that did not need a ground. Something new I suppose.
    My Dad always told me "Can't Never Could".

    SWE

  4. #4
    Join Date
    May 2008
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    Peshtigo,WI
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    1,395
    Every electric fence I've ever dealt with had round metal or fiberglass posts with insulators. You have to have the insulator between the post and the wire that makes you or the dog, rabbit etc. the ground conductor.

    I hope there aren't any young kids around that could get tangled up with that fence. And it probably won't keep any deer out. I've seen long stretches of electric fence torn down by deer that bumped it and ran right through it.
    Confidence: The feeling you experience before you fully understand the situation

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
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    Tippecanoe County, IN
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    836
    [QUOTE=Clarence Martinn;2805800]
    Yes, as above you need insulators.

    If you don't use a ground rod then high voltage high frequency is being conducted to ground through your household ground system to the nearest ground rod. Note that your ground system is not low impedance at high frequencies. You'll get a noise spike on your ground system every time the charger energizes the fence wire.
    Last edited by David L Morse; 04-23-2018 at 6:29 AM.
    Beranek's Law:

    It has been remarked that if one selects his own components, builds his own enclosure, and is convinced he has made a wise choice of design, then his own loudspeaker sounds better to him than does anyone else's loudspeaker. In this case, the frequency response of the loudspeaker seems to play only a minor part in forming a person's opinion.
    L.L. Beranek, Acoustics (McGraw-Hill, New York, 1954), p.208.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
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    E TN, near Knoxville
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    12,298
    No animal will get near a properly working electric fence after the first experience. If in doubt you can get an electric fence tester from a farm store or online to check the voltage and intensity of shock.

    All electric fences need one side well grounded, need insulators on every post, and good electrical connections everywhere. An exception is the portable electric netting that has ground wires built in and the posts themselves are insulators: https://www.premier1supplies.com/c/f...ectric-netting

    There are good fence chargers and bad, cheap chargers. I have several of this one for horses, donkeys, llamas, and the dogs of uncaring neighbors: https://parmakusa.com/product-catego...owered-models/ I've seen animals jump 4' backwards on their first encounter and never get near the fence again. The farm type that plugs into AC is a lot cheaper but always get one far more powerful than you need. The very cheap type that supplies a continuous voltage instead of a periodic zap is worthless in my opinion - not a powerful enough shock but it can set dry grass on fire.

    If you can't get it working ask a local farmer to check it out. There may be something you did that you don't know how to describe here.

    BTW, I don't know if I mentioned this earlier but once you get a properly working fence you can train deer to respect it by applying a glob of peanut butter to the wires every 6' or so. The deer smell the peanut butter and never get close again after the first taste. There are a lot of deer here and they have never been in my garden. I do have to train each generation.

    JKJ


    Quote Originally Posted by Clarence Martinn View Post
    Got the Electric Fence set up in the Backyard to keep the animals and the Dog out of the Garden. Here is the problem.....

    The Fencer says it does not need a Ground rod. I tried it with a Copper rod driven into the ground , and there was no electric going through the wire. So, I did it without the Ground rod. Used wood stakes to tie the wire around . When I got done, I plugged the fencer in. Grabbed a hold of the wire to see if it was fired up !! YEP !! it works!! Well, my Labrador Retriever plodded on over like a Work Horse to see what all the fuss was about. I figured he would stop once he got a zap.... NOPE!! He just stepped OVER the wire, and then proceeded to SIT ON THE ELECTRIC FENCE WIRE!!!

    NOTHING!!! No Zap, tingle, nothing!!! He gets up and touches his nose to it, He just walked away..

    Is this electric fencer defective ? Do I need a bigger charger???

  7. #7
    I've had several types of electric fences over the years. I've never heard of one with no ground rod requirement.

    Here are a few suggestions:

    1) You need to use insulators. What is happening is by the time the charge gets to the second stake the current has been dissipated due to grounding out. This is particularly true if you're using a Micky Mouse charger designed for pets. A quick comparison of the output will show what you've got.

    2) If you plan to keep animals like deer out of the garden, you need at least 3 strands. I recommend 1, 3, and 5' off the ground. I recommend tying some neon marking tape on the wire.

    3) If you're dealing with deer it is very common for them not to be detered because they simply jump over the fence. There are other methods that can help keeping deer out such as aluminum pie pans tied to posts help. Urinating in several spots around the perimeter also helps (yup!!)

    After trying everything, my neighbor set a radio tuned to a talk radio station left playing all night that solved it!

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
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    Mtl, Canada
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    2,379
    Quote Originally Posted by Clarence Martinn View Post
    Got the Electric Fence set up in the Backyard to keep the animals and the Dog out of the Garden. Here is the problem.....

    The Fencer says it does not need a Ground rod. I tried it with a Copper rod driven into the ground , and there was no electric going through the wire. So, I did it without the Ground rod. Used wood stakes to tie the wire around . When I got done, I plugged the fencer in. Grabbed a hold of the wire to see if it was fired up !! YEP !! it works!! Well, my Labrador Retriever plodded on over like a Work Horse to see what all the fuss was about. I figured he would stop once he got a zap.... NOPE!! He just stepped OVER the wire, and then proceeded to SIT ON THE ELECTRIC FENCE WIRE!!!

    NOTHING!!! No Zap, tingle, nothing!!! He gets up and touches his nose to it, He just walked away..

    Is this electric fencer defective ? Do I need a bigger charger???
    What do the instructions say to do?

  9. #9
    Some great suggestions, and yes, you need to have an insulator on every post. Without an insulator the current is going to ground through the wooden stakes.
    As far as needing a ground rod..........yes, in most cases it is required but their is one alternative, you can run another wire around the perimeter a couple of inches or so from your "hot" wire and attach your ground to it. The animal will have to touch both wires to receive a shock though. And both wires will require insulators on each post.
    How many joules does your fencer put out? I gave up on the low powered fencers designed for fido, not enough power for a long run of wire.
    On my fence around the garden I run four wires, the bottom is just a couple of inches off the ground for those low crawlers, squirrels etc. I then run two more wires spaced 6-7 inches apart above the bottom wire for groundhogs, raccoons, dogs etc. My top wire is a couple of feet high for deer.
    BTW, I use three ground rods for my system.

  10. #10
    I have seen all manner of problems with electric fence and currently have about three miles of it out there, is you include the three hot strands around the cattle pasture. Yes insulators must isolate the wire from any possible source to ground the wire. Some chargers do not work if you use a braided or twisted copper wire from the charger to the ground rod. Not sure why. Dogs sometimes do not "ground" on dry arid soil. So the fence has to be extra hot in many places to keep predators such as coyotes, foxes and wolves out. I have a goat that simply does not get shocked by even the 18K volts in the wires. I hear the audible snap when the cattle get shocked and they jump and bellow from the shock, but the goat goes right through. Right now the fence around my sheep pasture is not working and it snaps at the first gate, but I can't figure out why. It does not appear to be contacting anything which would permit a short, yet it is snapping quite loud. In another a piece of field fence is charged, but I can't find where it contacts the electric fence strands. I even replaced the insulators and ran new fencing. The field fence is still charged there. Electric fences are a PIA, but necessary.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
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    Somewhere in the Land of Lincoln
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    2,547
    Hard to imagine it not requiring a ground rod. That's what completes the circuit and makes it most effective. As everyone has already said unless your using fiberglass posts you have to use insulators. Not all electric fence chargers are a pulse. Some are continuous voltage. I have worked with electric fences to control hogs, cattle, sheep, and dogs as well as a deterrent to keep the raccoons (coons in this neck of the woods) out of the sweet corn. They are very effective and very easy to maintain. Of course sometimes what you are fencing to contain or keep out can make it a little more challenging. Troubleshooting usually means walking every bit of it looking for where the fence has became "grounded". It might be a weed has grown into or gotten into it or something has fallen against it. Walking it is the only way to locate the problem once you determine there is nothing wrong at the charger. If you have a very large run it is beneficial to have disconnects built in to help isolate the section with the problem. That all depends on the layout of your fencing. It sounds like yours isn't large but the basics don't change. Good luck.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
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    Lake Gaston, Henrico, NC
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    This place is a good source of information: https://www.kencove.com/fence/97_How...s_resource.php

    We have more than a mile of electric fencing. You can't just wrap the wire around a wooden stake. It has to have insulators. I'm not brand loyal to many things, but Stafix fence chargers are on the list. We use #9 aluminum wire on top of a wooden fence, with the black insulators made for high tensile wire. It's been trouble free for years. I've seen lightning send an arc over a gate, and the Stafix charger is still kicking years later.

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