Veritas Dovetail, Carcass, or Tenon saw

[Derek Cohen]

I'm thinking about purchasing a new saw. Right now, I have a Japanese Small Rip Dozuki saw from Lee Valley. But I've been eyeing the set of three Joinery Saws. The Rip cut dovetail saw makes sense. But I'm not sold on the size of the tenon saw. I would imagine that it's larger than what I would typically need, so I wondered if a rip cut carcass saw would be easier to use.

Am I correct that I can use the carcass saw just as well as the tenon saw for cutting most tenons? And if that's the case, is it advisable to purchase both versions of the carcass saw?

Thanks!

Hi Brad

Of that group of saws, the one I recommend is the Veritas dovetail saw. It is a no-brainer for a new Western dovetail saw at its price. Nothing else comes close. Having said that, my favourite dovetail saw for hardwoods is the LN 15 tpi. I have used this for over a decade, have several dovetail saws, but this has remained the one I return to.

My favourite tenon saw is the Gramercy rip sash saw. This is 14" and 13 tpi with 5 degrees of rake. It has a thin plate for a saw this size, and cuts quickly. It is light and balanced. I have a 16" tenon saw, a Wenzloff, and it feels (and is) large. It is an excellent saw, but the smaller 14" is just a better user for most tenons. Now the Gramercy costs more than the three Veritas saws in your post. The point I want to make is that a 14" tenon saw would be nicer to use than a 16" with a deep plate. I have a Disston that I restored and refiled. It does an excellent job as well. I am not sure what other new saws are available in this size.

The third saw I would add to this list is a Z-saw fine tooth rip dozuki (9" plate). This is a wonderful saw for detail work and short crosscuts. It leaves a fine surface. Note that this saw and the Veritas dovetail saw will do all your crosscutting as well.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Patrick Chase]

The Veritas tenon saw has three small things that differ from a traditional saw; 1) larger depth of cut, 2) no taper from end to end, and 3) a spine that does not go the whole length. These all contribute to a wobbly toe on the saw; it is just awfully far from the spine. I think you would be happier with something a little smaller or at least a little less depth. The carcass saw is small for making tenons so an intermediate size would be nice.

Putting numbers on this: The Veritas tenon saw has 4" of clearance under the spine, and the spine ends 2" short of the toe. For those who weren't paying attention in trig (or didn't teach it like Warren, IIRC), that means that the very tip of the toe is about 4.5" from the spine.

In other words, it doesn't handle much differently from any other backsaw with 4" clearance.

Stiffness of the plate is proportional to its thickness cubed and to the inverse of clearance ~squared. The tenon saw's plate is .024", so it starts out with a ~1.7x stiffness advantage over the 0.02" plates in typical carcase saws. The difference in depth between it and the carcase saw reduces stiffness by about 3x. In the net it's therefore about 1 - 1.7/3 = 40% less stiff than the carcase. I don't think it's objectionable, others may.

Warren's broader point is spot on: You shouldn't choose a "deeper" saw than you need, because you're going to pay for that extra clearance in either plate thickness (more work), stiffness, or both.

[Brad Keen]

Thanks all for your comments and thoughts. Phew. There is a lot of information here. The project that I'm currently working on, which has made me wish I had a different saw is a set of 6 cabinet doors. I have a Japanese dozuki rip saw (http://www.leevalley.com/us/wood/pag...884,42898&ap=1). It works fine, but I'm not enjoying the handle and the angle that I have to work at. I hoped a different saw might help me rip the faces of the tenons easier. For this project, where the tenons are only 1.25" even the dovetail saw would work.