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Thread: Staircase design: Comments, concerns, objections on building?

  1. #1

    Staircase design: Comments, concerns, objections on building?

    Hello! I'm writing from Norway, sharing my first post on SawMillCreek.

    I'm in the process of building my own house. Doing all the work my self.

    This variant of the tansu staircase, including desk and kitchen, will be my next challenge. The important centerpiece for my small house and the most precice and engineered piece of woodwork thus far without any doubt. I have never built anything like it before, so I have to really think this through if I'm hoping to get it right.

    I will refrain from describing my own thoughts on joining methods, to avoid inhibiting you from interpreting the design on your own. If you were put to the task of building this, how would you go about it? (If at all.)

    The material is supposed to be 2cm (0,78") thickness oak, step height 30cm (11,8"), step depth 27,6cm (10,8") step width 50,2cm (19,7").

    I've attempted to upload the sketchup-file here, so that anyone that wants to can download and have a close look. Feel free to make changes!


    Sellanraa (english).jpg
    Sellanraa (english)2.jpg
    Sellanraa (english)3.jpg
    Sellanraa (english)4.jpg

    Thank you for your time.
    Any help at all would be highly appreciated!


    Best regards,

    Ola Flaten
    www.olaflaten.com

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
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    Tasmania
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    2,162
    Ola, I built a similar staircase to this a couple of years ago as one of 3 sets of stairs for a house I refitted. My first comment is that by my standards here in Australia, your stair rise is too high for comfort. Maximum rise should be no more than 255mm. Secondly, the 20mm stock may be too thin for creating a solid enough staircase. Stairs must feel solid to step on with no flexing or detectable movement. If there is any feeling of flexing, your stair will fail in a few years. It is also important for giving a building the feeling of quality. Your house can be perfect everywhere but if the stairs sound hollow and move at all, the whole house feels the same.

    The solution I found was to increase the thickness of the stock timber. I went to 32mm thick. If you don't want to see screws or nails, you can do dado joints everywhere and glue them with either epoxy or resorcinol glue. If it is going to be painted, still use dado joints but use screws as well. Also, put a low kick board under your bottom shelves. This means you can fix the kicker to the floor with decent sized fasteners and then neatly fix the stair to the kicker. Cheers
    Every construction obeys the laws of physics. Whether we like or understand the result is of no interest to the universe.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
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    Michigan
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    Wow, that would never pass building inspection in the US, and for good reasons. But if it meets your needs I offer a couple of small adjustments that can help.

    Add 20mm overhang to each tread. Glue a 10mm quarter round under it inside and outside to capture the riser. (not sure what standard sizes would be over there)

    Add toe boards to each end of the treads to keep debris on the stairs and not on your desk or counter. These can be structural to add to the stiffness of the stairs.

  4. #4
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    And one more

    You show the vertical planks cut by the horizontal ones. It will be better to make the vertical planks continuous and the horizontal ones supported by blocks similar to the quarter round but more substantial. This will change the simple look you have shown but with some creativity you can make these into features.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Bender View Post
    And one more

    You show the vertical planks cut by the horizontal ones. It will be better to make the vertical planks continuous and the horizontal ones supported by blocks similar to the quarter round but more substantial. This will change the simple look you have shown but with some creativity you can make these into features.
    I don't see what I'd have to gain on that. Having the vertical planks cut by the horizontal ones is a conscious choice with structural integrity in mind. But more importantly as you point out yourself, It would lose the simple look. It would be much easier to build if I was willing to have a lot of supporting blocks with visible screws and hardware. The hidden joints implicit in the design is my reason for asking advice!
    Last edited by Ola Flaten; 04-18-2018 at 9:54 AM.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Bender View Post
    Wow, that would never pass building inspection in the US, and for good reasons. But if it meets your needs I offer a couple of small adjustments that can help.

    Add 20mm overhang to each tread. Glue a 10mm quarter round under it inside and outside to capture the riser. (not sure what standard sizes would be over there)

    Add toe boards to each end of the treads to keep debris on the stairs and not on your desk or counter. These can be structural to add to the stiffness of the stairs.
    It would never pass building inspection here in Norway either. I'm not too worried about that.

    Adding 20mm overhang as a means to capture the riser is something to think about, and the toe boards too. Thank you.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Wayne Lomman View Post
    Ola, I built a similar staircase to this a couple of years ago as one of 3 sets of stairs for a house I refitted. My first comment is that by my standards here in Australia, your stair rise is too high for comfort. Maximum rise should be no more than 255mm. Secondly, the 20mm stock may be too thin for creating a solid enough staircase. Stairs must feel solid to step on with no flexing or detectable movement. If there is any feeling of flexing, your stair will fail in a few years. It is also important for giving a building the feeling of quality. Your house can be perfect everywhere but if the stairs sound hollow and move at all, the whole house feels the same.

    The solution I found was to increase the thickness of the stock timber. I went to 32mm thick. If you don't want to see screws or nails, you can do dado joints everywhere and glue them with either epoxy or resorcinol glue. If it is going to be painted, still use dado joints but use screws as well. Also, put a low kick board under your bottom shelves. This means you can fix the kicker to the floor with decent sized fasteners and then neatly fix the stair to the kicker. Cheers
    The stair rise is most certainly high, but I have given it a lot of thought and think it will work absolutely for me. Going up stairs I always, always do two steps at a time anyways. Down, is what I'd have to worry about. I would much rather have steps that ar properly deep than having more, shallower and lower steps. And besides: Since this piece of furniture is designed as staircase, desk and kitchen in one, the comfortable heights and dimensions for desk and kitchen also have to be taken into account, and that has truly been a challenge. Kitchen of 90cm height has to be divisible with stair height. With the desk I felt forced to compromise the clean lines to ensure a comfortable height of 2,5 stairs = 75cm.

    You say it's important for giving a building the feeling of quality, now here I agree completely. If the stairs sound hollow then the house will feel the same. Yes, I've learned to spend money on the things you touch and are in direct contact with, as these are what shape your impression of a building the most.

    Maybe I'll actually have to redesign it for thicker materials... That would up the price tag as well! Sheesh, why do I always have to push it.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Yonak Hawkins View Post
    Ola, if you're comfortable with a double gap between steps 4 and 5 you should be OK with the same gap between steps 2 and 3 for more storage space versatility, it seems to me.

    Well, I'm actually not all too comfortable with a double gap between steps 4 and 5, I might have to enforce it somehow. And besides, my computer goes in perfectly in the bottom space under stair 3, so it's designed with that in mind. Thanks though, food for thought!

  9. #9
    Join Date
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    Stairs are not shelves, they take much greater loads and if they fail it is a big risk.

    If you add 20mm x 20mm x 40cm quarter round under and behind each nosing it will not affect the appearance much and it will double the strength of this critical joint.

    Best wishes on this project.

  10. #10
    Join Date
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    Check out this one I drew up. Saw it on a tiny house website.

    https://sketchfab.com/models/b839717...ddda4e1b1139e7

    Pretty sure I put the model up on the 3D Warehouse. Let me check.

    Yes! Found it: https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/mod...ny-beach-shack

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