Parf Guide holes and Veritas Low Profile work stop question

[laura vianello]

I have in mind a jig that is giving me hard time because of supply of necessary material. I saw:
http://www.leevalley.com/us/wood/pag...=1,43838,70865

I have a couple of question if some of you is using this stop and uses the Parf Guide holes system.

1) Do these cylindric blocks (like bench dogs) fit snuggly the 20mm holes? I read that they are 20mm but in another post I read that they are good for 3/4", which, to me , it is a limitation of accuracy for my project.

2) Are the cylindric blocks properly centered in the middle of the guide?

3) How tall are the cylindric blocks

4) are these cylindric blocks removable from the guide?
Thanks

[David Bassett]

I have in mind a jig that is giving me hard time because of supply of necessary material. I saw:
http://www.leevalley.com/us/wood/pag...=1,43838,70865

I have a couple of question if some of you is using this stop and uses the Parf Guide holes system.

1) Do these cylindric blocks (like bench dogs) fit snuggly the 20mm holes? I read that they are 20mm but in another post I read that they are good for 3/4", which, to me , it is a limitation of accuracy for my project.

2) Are the cylindric blocks properly centered in the middle of the guide?

3) How tall are the cylindric blocks

4) are these cylindric blocks removable from the guide?
Thanks

3/4" is about 19mm.

It looks like LV has the same work stop with 3/4" posts: Veritas Planing Stop.

I don't know the answers to the rest of your questions. Maybe just call LV's customer support.

[Chet R Parks]

(2) Yes the blocks/post are centered in the guide
(3) From the bottom of the guide they are 1-7/16 long
(4) Yes they can be removed from the guide

[Jack Lemley]

I have that jig and they are a bit sloppy in my CNC'd custom 20mm top. TSO's close fit dogs fit my top perfectly.

Jack

I have in mind a jig that is giving me hard time because of supply of necessary material. I saw:
http://www.leevalley.com/us/wood/pag...=1,43838,70865

I have a couple of question if some of you is using this stop and uses the Parf Guide holes system.

1) Do these cylindric blocks (like bench dogs) fit snuggly the 20mm holes? I read that they are 20mm but in another post I read that they are good for 3/4", which, to me , it is a limitation of accuracy for my project.

2) Are the cylindric blocks properly centered in the middle of the guide?

3) How tall are the cylindric blocks

4) are these cylindric blocks removable from the guide?
Thanks

[Mike Holbrook]

I have a set too. To be fair there are quite a few: drill bits, jigs, posts.....that are slightly less than the measurement they are labeled.

I talked to LV customer service when I found that some of their bench accesories were too large for the “3/4”” holes I drilled with my Wood Owl drill bit. Turns out the 3/4” Wood Owl bit is actually 19mm. I called to check on whether the Wood Owl bits LV is selling are actually 3/4”. The person I talked to went and actually measured. The LV bits marked as 3/4” are actually 19mm too. The LV rep knew I wanted to drill holes with their 3/4” and 20mm bushings in bench tops. He told me the Wood Owl bit fit their 3/4” bushing almost perfectly. The hole one is told to drill for the 3/4” bushing is 1”, which is 25.4mm. They sell a bit that supposedly drills a 25mm hole to fit the 20mm bushing in....

I tried to check the bases of my LV 3/4” and 20mm bushings to see if they were similar. The difference, if there is any, is too small for me to see, looking at the two bases butted together, either at their tops or bottoms. Even using my Fastcap Metric/Standard measuring tape the measurable difference in the diameters of the two bushings inside dimensions is so negligible that any description might be an exageration. The ends of both bushings are tapered, making it hard to measure. I even tried holding the two bushings tops together and looking at a lamp through both, still any difference may be negligible. I will admit my arms have gotten too short for me to see well, even with my glasses on.

[Mike Holbrook]

I checked the directions that came with the 3/4” bushing against the ones that came with the 20mm. The directions appear to be the same. I took the bushings to my wife who has surgically corrected vision, better than 20/20. She sees a slightly smaller hole in, what I am assuming is the 3/4” bushing, holding the two together and looking through them together. I lost track of which bushing is which when I was “not seeing” any difference.

I am now trying to figure out if the .4mm difference between 1” and 25mm means I should buy specific bits to drill the holes for the 3/4” vs 20mm bushings to sit in. I may check back with LV about what the Wood Owl 1” bit actually measures. I believe the LV rep I talked to before told me the drill bits they sell to fit their bushings are also slightly undersized. They also offer a 15/16” Wood Owl bit. Shees, back to my metric/imperial conversion charts, more division to multiple decimal points....

[Rob Lee]

I have in mind a jig that is giving me hard time because of supply of necessary material. I saw:
http://www.leevalley.com/us/wood/pag...=1,43838,70865

I have a couple of question if some of you is using this stop and uses the Parf Guide holes system.

1) Do these cylindric blocks (like bench dogs) fit snuggly the 20mm holes? I read that they are 20mm but in another post I read that they are good for 3/4", which, to me , it is a limitation of accuracy for my project.

2) Are the cylindric blocks properly centered in the middle of the guide?

3) How tall are the cylindric blocks

4) are these cylindric blocks removable from the guide?
Thanks

Hi Laura -

The posts on the stops are made exactly to the specifications set by Festool - they are not an Imperial product. We also make a similar product with 3/4" posts under a different product name and number. We have done (in 2013!) extensive testing and measurement of the MFT surface used in combination with dogs that have different root diameters, and can positively state the following:

1) Registration accuracy is NOT dependent on pin size*
2) Registration accuracy is dependent on pin/head tolerances
3) Registration is dependent on hole location accuracy
4) Registration is dependent on hole diameter tolerances
5) Registration accuracy is dependent on pin spacing
6) Festool does an excellent job of maintaining hole locus relative to vertical and horizontal axes, even if axis spacing varies

‘*’ - As long as pins are within 5% or so of nominal hole size.

Any pair of precision machined dogs will register as accurately as any other equally precision machined dogs when used in the same holes, no matter what the root diameter of the pin is. Essential, the “tightness” of the pin is irrelevant, and has no bearing on registration accuracy.

If you'd like to have a look at the test data and results - see here:

http://www.leevalley.com/home/temprl/MFTtestsum.doc

Hope that helps!

Cheers -

Rob

[laura vianello]

I have them too but they have a collar. I am looking for no collar dogs, 20 mm OD, 40-50mm tall. thanks anyway

[laura vianello]

Thanks Rob! Very interesting reading. My holes were made with the Parf Guide (which I purchased from Lee Valley) and they are very very accurate. I wanted to use this # 05G23.02 to use it as a fence perpendicular to the saw track rail (which is connected to 2 tall dogs with UJK orange clips) and use the setting to do rip of thin pieces. I might be able to post some picture when I finished and execute this idea but I am concerned that the fence will slide off the dogs. Do the dog works like the Qwas dogs? I mean they are screw in? I do not want to buy something unless I am sure...thanks again for your help!

[laura vianello]

Yes, I saw that. It is the only product with removable 20mm dogs...which is a double use. As a fence and also to align my "jigs with 20mm holes" to the MFT table (Homemade with parf Guide). It looks like it would be perfect...I need to get over the $$$$$

[Mike Holbrook]

I solved my bench holes issue by deciding to go metric. The Wood Owl ultra smooth drill bits are actually metric though LV lists them with Imperial sizing. 3/4” = 19mm, 5/8”=16mm, 20mm= 13/16”, 25mm=1” in metric equivalents, not exact. Now I can drill exact holes with Wood Owl bits and a T jig indexed with smaller LV metric bushings.