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Thread: Mixol in Clear Poly-Will it work?

  1. #16
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    In practice, colours tinted off clear bases are very average in their opacity. Many paint manufacturers have designed their systems around clear bases because it reduces their inventory and simplifies production. The cost is to the end user who has to either use a specific coloured primer or apply multiple coats to get the depth required. One of the key reasons why I use a particular manufacturer is because they still use a range of opaque bases for their colours.

    Of course, colours that are translucent have their uses as well. You get different effects from different coloured primers. The is a public sculpture of a lightning strike here in Tasmania that required a specific clear based yellow over a specific grey to get the required impression of luminosity.

    In answer to the original question, its an expensive and thankless way to try and get coverage that may not work out how you want. Cheers
    Every construction obeys the laws of physics. Whether we like or understand the result is of no interest to the universe.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Becker View Post
    The concern with what you suggest, Curt, is that latex paint (assumed because of the blocking you mention) is generally "soft" and the varnish may be "harder", especially if it's oil based. That sets up a soft finish under a hard finish which can sometimes crack and fail. There's also the yellowing effect of putting an oil based varnish over paint...again, assuming the poly the OP has is oil based varnish.
    Mixing oil base and water based wouldn't work anyway, would it? At least without a barrier coat. I used WB for both and last time I looked there was no cracking or other distortion.

  3. #18
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    Curt, I'm only suggesting there is a "possibility" of issues with a "soft" finish under a "hard" finish. And yes, there can be compatibility issues with dissimilar finishes that sometimes require a barrier for proper adhesion.
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  4. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Curt Harms View Post
    Mixing oil base and water based wouldn't work anyway, would it? At least without a barrier coat. I used WB for both and last time I looked there was no cracking or other distortion.
    Curt, I have done what you've described several times. In my case, it was a three step process of white primer (either BullsEye WB or shellac based BIN), followed by white latex paint sprayed in two thin coats, followed by WB Poly. I consider it a winning schedule for me in that the final result is an excellent finish from a visual and tactile standpoint, and I have seen no cracking, crazing or yellowing. At the second step, yes, the latex paint has that slightly tacky feel, but the WB Poly seems to form a hard coat over it with no stickiness at all.

    Truth is, I think an acrylic paint would be a superior solution but in my case I was simply trying to find a way to work with what I had on hand so I used the latex.
    Edwin

  5. #20
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    If you're going to use regular latex paint for color and then top coat with a clear water borne product...buy flat or matte color paint. That right there will minimize blocking and likely provide a better end result. But if you're spraying, you can buy Target Coatings EM6500 tinted to any SW or BM color and sheen you want and get the benefit of a nice acrylic product for about the same cost as a premium, name brand paint product, after the constantly running 25% off coupon codes in their emails, of course. I just did that for the new deeper, upper kitchen cabinets I completed and installed yesterday. BM color code was used.
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  6. #21
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    I used to do color science (for inkjet printers and copiers, of all things) and professional color folk can be a frightfully pedantic lot, so I apologize in advance for my nit-picking here...

    Quote Originally Posted by Wayne Lomman View Post
    In practice, colours tinted off clear bases are very average in their opacity. Many paint manufacturers have designed their systems around clear bases because it reduces their inventory and simplifies production. The cost is to the end user who has to either use a specific coloured primer or apply multiple coats to get the depth required.
    In a system like that the primer (which presumably uses titanium dioxide or similar) is providing all of the opacity, while the "paint" is actually a tinted clear that modifies color by selectively absorbing some wavelengths while passing others so that they bounce off of the primer.

    It sounds from your comment as though that layered approach doesn't work very well for wood paints. In other domains it can reduce the amount of color pigments needed to produce any given color, and provide higher saturations relative to mixing the colorants with the white pigment. Layering guarantees that all of the colored pigments sit "on top" of the white pigment and actually contribute to the visible color. The big downside to layering is that the final color is very sensitive to the thickness of the tinted layer, so it's rather unforgiving of sloppy application.
    Last edited by Patrick Chase; 04-17-2018 at 10:15 PM.

  7. #22
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    Patrick, the systems I am referring to are by manufacturers that expect any colour tinted off a clear base to adequately cover generic non specific primers not a specially tinted primer. I get the feeling that your background is at a much greater level of precision than what is dished out to end users of protective and industrial coatings. This clear base tinting is an approach some manufacturers adopt and is not restricted to timber finishes. Many automotive systems rely on the effects you refer to but protective and industrial coatings do not. They expect you to cover the generic primer with whatever colour and this does not work off a clear base tinted top coat. If you are not awake to this, your colour matching is way off unless you apply bucket loads of extra top coat at your own cost. So, I stick with a manufacturer that produces factory tinted bases that cover the preceding coats. Cheers
    Every construction obeys the laws of physics. Whether we like or understand the result is of no interest to the universe.

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