Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 22

Thread: Mixol in Clear Poly-Will it work?

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2018
    Location
    Madison WI area
    Posts
    59

    Mixol in Clear Poly-Will it work?

    So i have been chomping at the bit to run to my local Woodcraft store and pick up a bottle of Mixol to play/test with, but the weather here is not cooperating-Gives me lots of time to research and overthink things... LOL

    I am wondering since Mixol is "pigmentated" can i add to some poly to make it a "colored" poly or will it still be translucent as if i added a dye tint to it? I do not want to see the wood grain under the finish.
    Ridgid R4513 jobsite saw, Ridgid R4512 Table saw, Ridgid JP601 jointer/planer,
    Jet DC-1100VX-CK Dust collector, Bosch 1617 EVSPK router, Bosch RA1181 router table, Rikon 10-326 Band saw
    Dewalt 735 planer, Fuji Q5Platinum HVLP,

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    SE PA - Central Bucks County
    Posts
    44,598
    If your intention is to obliterate the grain...why start out with a clear finish? There are many choices of products that are already tinted/colored that will serve that purpose well. And adding color to a clear coat can provide some interesting challenges for getting an even color, too. (Hence the distain you'll read about for products like Minwax's polyurethane with color added)
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2018
    Location
    Madison WI area
    Posts
    59
    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Becker View Post
    If your intention is to obliterate the grain...why start out with a clear finish? There are many choices of products that are already tinted/colored that will serve that purpose well. And adding color to a clear coat can provide some interesting challenges for getting an even color, too. (Hence the distain you'll read about for products like Minwax's polyurethane with color added)
    Hey Jim....
    Thanks for the quick response... I have 4 qts of poly sitting on the shelf and simply am "playing" or should i say want to "experiment" ... remember when we were kids..we always wondered "what if"? I tried the Minwax Poly Shades once... and ONLY once!
    Ridgid R4513 jobsite saw, Ridgid R4512 Table saw, Ridgid JP601 jointer/planer,
    Jet DC-1100VX-CK Dust collector, Bosch 1617 EVSPK router, Bosch RA1181 router table, Rikon 10-326 Band saw
    Dewalt 735 planer, Fuji Q5Platinum HVLP,

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    WNY
    Posts
    4,950
    I think the simple answer is yes. Many colored products are made from clear base, both stains and topcoats. I've had several custom mixed stains made and SW's has often started with a clear base. The Duralaq WB lacquer I just used on my kitchen cabinets was mixed by BM from the clear finish. I suspect TC does the same with their EM-6500 line.
    Whether you find it cost effective to roll your own remains to be seen. I might try tinting GF's White Poly if I needed a slight color shift like the antique white you talked about and I had a bunch of it I didn't know what to do with, but for a dark color I would buy a commercial product.

    John

  5. #5
    David

    You wrote "I am wondering since Mixol is "pigmentated" can i add to some poly to make it a "colored" poly or will it still be translucent as if i added a dye tint to it? I do not want to see the wood grain under the finish."

    I have used other UTC's but not Mixol. I assume that Mixol is a pigment like other UTC's, meaning it is finely ground particles of colored material, rather than a dye dissolved in a solvent. In either case, you add so little to the varnish that it does not reduce the transparency. If you do not want to see the grain, use paint. If you want to use the varnish that you already have, you might be able to experiment with mixing it with oil paint, in the spirit of adventure. It might give you a satisfactory result, or not.

    Doug.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    WNY
    Posts
    4,950
    Doug, this simple is not correct. If you add sufficient pigment to a clear finish, like the Duralaq I talked about above, it will be opaque like paint, which is exactly what it now is.

    John

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Doylestown, PA
    Posts
    5,472
    Quote Originally Posted by David Ruhland View Post
    Hey Jim....
    Thanks for the quick response... I have 4 qts of poly sitting on the shelf and simply am "playing" or should i say want to "experiment" ... remember when we were kids..we always wondered "what if"? I tried the Minwax Poly Shades once... and ONLY once!
    There might be one use for your poly. You know how paint can stay 'sticky' for a long time after application? If the paint and your poly are compatible, would it be worthwhile to paint the piece to completely obscure the grain then once cured overcoat with poly. I assume the poly wouldn't be sticky once dry. I did something similar once, a friend wanted a low rent white stand. I used white wall paint then overcoated it with Water based poly. It seemed to work okay.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    SE PA - Central Bucks County
    Posts
    44,598
    The concern with what you suggest, Curt, is that latex paint (assumed because of the blocking you mention) is generally "soft" and the varnish may be "harder", especially if it's oil based. That sets up a soft finish under a hard finish which can sometimes crack and fail. There's also the yellowing effect of putting an oil based varnish over paint...again, assuming the poly the OP has is oil based varnish.
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by John TenEyck View Post
    Doug, this simple is not correct. If you add sufficient pigment to a clear finish, like the Duralaq I talked about above, it will be opaque like paint, which is exactly what it now is.

    John
    John,

    I suppose that it depends on how much colorant you would add and what the product is. The UTC's that I have experience with (mainly Tints-All) would color the varnish but I have never added enough for them to perceptibly change the transparency. It seems to me that it would take a great deal of UTC to make varnish opaque. Your experience evidently differs. So it goes

    Doug

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    SE PA - Central Bucks County
    Posts
    44,598
    I was kinda thinking the same thing, Doug...but I have no experience or expertise here on that...
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    WNY
    Posts
    4,950
    Quote Originally Posted by Doug Hepler View Post
    John,

    I suppose that it depends on how much colorant you would add and what the product is. The UTC's that I have experience with (mainly Tints-All) would color the varnish but I have never added enough for them to perceptibly change the transparency. It seems to me that it would take a great deal of UTC to make varnish opaque. Your experience evidently differs. So it goes

    Doug

    Paint is nothing more than varnish and pigment.

    John

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    Dublin, CA
    Posts
    4,013
    Quote Originally Posted by John TenEyck View Post
    Doug, this simple is not correct. If you add sufficient pigment to a clear finish, like the Duralaq I talked about above, it will be opaque like paint, which is exactly what it now is.

    John
    This is misleading at best, because while you can achieve an opaque finish that way your selection of colors will be the same as that of the Ford Model-T: Black.

    The physical property that makes something colorful is that it absorbs some wavelengths than others, i.e. it absorbs some wavelengths and transmits others. The colorants in UTCs generally don't reflect light at all. What this means is that it takes a LOT of any single colorant to achieve true opacity, since you must use enough to block the weakly-absorbed wavelengths. You can easily make an opaque finish with colorants that combine to strongly absorb all wavelengths (cyan + magenta + yellow for example), but the resultant finish will be black.

    Paints bases are made by taking an (often clear) drying vehicle of some sort and adding a bunch of white reflective pigment. In the past that pigment was typically lead carbonate (as in "lead paint"). Most paints today use Titanium Dioxide AFAIK. Colorants (UTCs etc) are then added to that white base to selectively absorb certain wavelengths, producing opaque colors other than black.

    The presence of the white pigment in the base is the key difference between a "paint" and a "tinted clear".
    Last edited by Patrick Chase; 04-16-2018 at 1:52 PM.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    Dublin, CA
    Posts
    4,013
    Quote Originally Posted by John TenEyck View Post
    Paint is nothing more than varnish and pigment.

    John
    Nit-picky: Not all paints cure by cross-linking, so they aren't all technically varnishes.

    Also, you need to start with a whole lot of white pigment to make a paint, as I noted in another post. Not all "varnishes" can carry that high of a colorant load.
    Last edited by Patrick Chase; 04-16-2018 at 1:49 PM.

  14. #14
    Patrick Chase said:"Paints bases are made by taking an (often clear) drying vehicle of some sort and adding a bunch of white reflective pigment. In the past that pigment was typically lead carbonate (as in 'lead paint'). Most paints today use Titanium Dioxide AFAIK. Colorants (UTCs etc) are then added to that white base to selectively absorb certain wavelengths, producing opaque colors other than black.

    The presence of the white pigment in the base is the key difference between a 'paint' and a 'tinted clear'."
    - - - - --
    Yup. Patrick, your point is clear. The key to resolving this discussion is indeed the presence of white pigment in paint. Also, isn't the amount and particle size of the white pigment one of the differences (in addition to vehicle) between good paint and cheap paint?

    By the way -- to David (the OP) -- one of your experiments in mixing paint with varnish could be a quick and dirty faux limed effect. You would have to experiment with proportions, but if you add a little white oil paint to varnish, brush on a thin coat and then wipe it off with a rag, the white paint will remain in the pores of the wood. This is usually done with porous woods like oak or ash but it might create an interesting effect on closer grained woods as well.

    Doug

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    WNY
    Posts
    4,950
    Quote Originally Posted by Doug Hepler View Post
    Patrick Chase said:"Paints bases are made by taking an (often clear) drying vehicle of some sort and adding a bunch of white reflective pigment. In the past that pigment was typically lead carbonate (as in 'lead paint'). Most paints today use Titanium Dioxide AFAIK. Colorants (UTCs etc) are then added to that white base to selectively absorb certain wavelengths, producing opaque colors other than black.

    The presence of the white pigment in the base is the key difference between a 'paint' and a 'tinted clear'."
    - - - - --
    Yup. Patrick, your point is clear. The key to resolving this discussion is indeed the presence of white pigment in paint. Also, isn't the amount and particle size of the white pigment one of the differences (in addition to vehicle) between good paint and cheap paint?

    By the way -- to David (the OP) -- one of your experiments in mixing paint with varnish could be a quick and dirty faux limed effect. You would have to experiment with proportions, but if you add a little white oil paint to varnish, brush on a thin coat and then wipe it off with a rag, the white paint will remain in the pores of the wood. This is usually done with porous woods like oak or ash but it might create an interesting effect on closer grained woods as well.

    Doug

    Potatoes, potatoes. The practical point is tinted clear isn't transparent if you add enough pigment. Here's a photo of the base cabinets I just finished with Lenmar Duralaq Clear that BM tinted to their "Gray" color. Looks opaque to me, just like paint. Maybe they added a bunch of white pigment to it and made paint out of it. Doesn't matter to me.

    John


Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •