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Thread: Opinions...used Powermatic 66 (1998) or brand new grizzly G0690x

  1. #16
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    Sep 2004
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex Zeller View Post
    Not sure of your location or if you would want to do any work to a saw but in the last few weeks I have seen two PM66 (one green and the other gold) and a PM72 (what a beast) sell at auction near me for well under $1000 (including the buyer's premium). There's two more close by (both gold) that are very tempting and if the price stays under $500 on the 3hp single phase one I think I'll pull the trigger even though I'm limited on room. The other is a newer Houndaille (so of less interest to me) with a 5hp 3 phase motor but if it sells cheap enough I'd still be tempted. I've seen some other brands sell for cheap too. There was a nice looking General (they don't seam to have the same following as Powermatic but still a very nice saw) that sold for less than $200.
    I say again, my area is the Bermuda Triangle for Craigs list woodworking. Just old rusty garbage and sometimes companies going out of business. From the looks of the equipment they are trying to sell I know why they are going out of business. Old beat up tools that would need major rehab in order to turn out good product.

    I wish I could see some of the stuff you guys mention. This is one reason I wanted to buy new.
    Marshall
    ---------------------------
    A Stickley fan boy.

  2. #17
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    Sep 2013
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    I wouldn't trade my ~1985 PM66 for a new Grizzley on a bet. Think about it-- it was a $3K saw in 1985. That's $7000 in 2018 bucks. Even if you have to spend $100 on bearings you've got a much better saw-- unless you think cast iron is like electronics and follows a Moores Law like curve to higher quality at lower prices over time. I don't.

    I never see good saws cheap on the used market around here-- if they are cheap there is usually a pretty good reason.

  3. #18
    The PM66 is a WAY better saw. Make him an offer he can't refuse.
    "Anything seems possible when you don't know what you're doing."

  4. #19
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    Mar 2018
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    Red face

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Cav View Post
    The Grizzly is on sale for $1695 right now. Like the other responses up thread, I think the price is about 50% high for a 90s vintage PM 66. However, if the price includes the outfeed table, mobile base, side extension, CI router table and the router, that makes it a little better, but still high, IMO. If you can live without a riving knife I feel the PM is a better saw. I have a 2 HP PM65 and it has plenty of power, and I've used lots of PM66s at school. They are simple and easy to work on.

    I did have a right tilt Grizzly clone of the Unisaw a number of years ago. There was nothing wrong with it, fine saw, but I sold it when I got my Delta 12/14.
    it does include all those things in the pictures, base outfeed,side, router as well as the original splitter. Thu texting the price dropped down to $1500 for all mentioned above. Still think its a touch over inflated, but getting closer.

  5. #20
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    The 66 is the better choice. See if you can get it closer to 1500. Keep in mind it has the mobile base, out feed table and cast router extension. I don’t think the base and outfeed table are original so their worth some money.
    Don

  6. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by brian cammarata View Post
    ...the price dropped down to $1500 for all mentioned above...
    That is a fair price for everything in excellent condition. Jump on this.
    "Anything seems possible when you don't know what you're doing."

  7. #22
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    Dec 2005
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    I agree that the 66 is a better saw and made in USA is a bonus. But, if you want a saw thatís minty fresh and with a warranty and customer support, the grizzly is a better choice for you.
    If you appreciate American made and are mechanically inclined (you might want to replace bearings/belts), talk the 66 guy down to more like $1000-1200. Thatís still rich to me for an older TS, when most people want shiny new or flesh sensing tech.

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marshall Harrison View Post
    I say again, my area is the Bermuda Triangle for Craigs list woodworking. Just old rusty garbage and sometimes companies going out of business. From the looks of the equipment they are trying to sell I know why they are going out of business. Old beat up tools that would need major rehab in order to turn out good product.

    I wish I could see some of the stuff you guys mention. This is one reason I wanted to buy new.
    I've only bought 1 thing off Craig's list, a sand/ seed spreader for my tractor and the only reason I got a good deal on it is the seller didn't give the correct email address so it took a little work to get a hold of him. The only other thing I've done with C-List is get rid of two old riding mowers for free. When looking for used woodworking equipment I've found that doing a search for woodworking equipment auctions brings up several companies that deal with selling off equipment from businesses that are either closing or liquidating equipment they no longer use. Plenty of stuff will have extra safety attachments, like a riving knife and/ or a blade guard on an arm to satisfy their insurer. The one company I've bought from before doesn't seam to have any auctions south of North Carolina, at least at the moment. You must make sure that you understand their terms. Some places will load the equipment others you must load it.

    I have a Harbor Freight 14" band saw that I got after giving up on Craig's list. There's an older Delta 14" that nobody has bid on yet that I'm keeping an eye on. If it looks like it'll sell for $50 or less I'll bid on it.

  9. #24
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    Sep 2004
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex Zeller View Post
    I've only bought 1 thing off Craig's list, a sand/ seed spreader for my tractor and the only reason I got a good deal on it is the seller didn't give the correct email address so it took a little work to get a hold of him. The only other thing I've done with C-List is get rid of two old riding mowers for free. When looking for used woodworking equipment I've found that doing a search for woodworking equipment auctions brings up several companies that deal with selling off equipment from businesses that are either closing or liquidating equipment they no longer use. Plenty of stuff will have extra safety attachments, like a riving knife and/ or a blade guard on an arm to satisfy their insurer. The one company I've bought from before doesn't seam to have any auctions south of North Carolina, at least at the moment. You must make sure that you understand their terms. Some places will load the equipment others you must load it.

    I have a Harbor Freight 14" band saw that I got after giving up on Craig's list. There's an older Delta 14" that nobody has bid on yet that I'm keeping an eye on. If it looks like it'll sell for $50 or less I'll bid on it.
    Thanks Alex.

    I'll do a google search fo the auctions. My son does okay buying and selling auto parts etc CL but woodworking tools just don't seem to be a CL thing in my area.
    Marshall
    ---------------------------
    A Stickley fan boy.

  10. #25
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    Out of curiosity, have you looked at other table saw alternatives to the Grizzly? For example, the Laguna Fusion (which is the same price) and the model made by Harvey?

    Regards from Perth

    Derek

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Derek Cohen View Post
    Out of curiosity, have you looked at other table saw alternatives to the Grizzly? For example, the Laguna Fusion (which is the same price) and the model made by Harvey?

    Regards from Perth

    Derek
    The Fusion is a hybrid, and a significant step down from either the PM66 of G0690. Less power, less robust underpinnings, and a much lesser fence.

    I think the PM66 is a more robust machine than the G0690, but not necessarily the better choice. The G0690 isn't exactly flimsy...its still a pretty stout saw and has the benefit of a warranty, riving knife, and that new car smell. It really boils down your preferences and how you'll use it.
    Happiness is like wetting your pants...everyone can see it, but only you can feel the warmth....

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by scott spencer View Post
    The Fusion is a hybrid, and a significant step down from either the PM66 of G0690. Less power, less robust underpinnings, and a much lesser fence.

    I think the PM66 is a more robust machine than the G0690, but not necessarily the better choice. The G0690 isn't exactly flimsy...its still a pretty stout saw and has the benefit of a warranty, riving knife, and that new car smell. It really boils down your preferences and how you'll use it.
    OK folks, "Hybrid" is not a bad word. They may not be as robust or quite as heavy as some saw but they are still a great option for the weekend or hobbyist. The trunnions may not be as heavy but they are still mounted to the cabinet not the table and most like the fusion have fully inclosed motors so dust collection is improved. Also 1 3/4 or 2 horsepower will get you through most tasks.

    Not everyone wants or needs a 5hp 230V 500 pound monster of a table saw.

    Scott - this isn't aimed at you. I just quoted your post as an example. I'm with you on your other points. I too prefer new and a warranty. Plus with used you never know how bad the saw was mistreated and what problems you are inheriting..
    Last edited by Marshall Harrison; 04-14-2018 at 9:57 AM.
    Marshall
    ---------------------------
    A Stickley fan boy.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Day View Post
    I agree that the 66 is a better saw and made in USA is a bonus. But, if you want a saw that’s minty fresh and with a warranty and customer support, the grizzly is a better choice for you.
    If you appreciate American made and are mechanically inclined (you might want to replace bearings/belts), talk the 66 guy down to more like $1000-1200. That’s still rich to me for an older TS, when most people want shiny new or flesh sensing tech.
    If you have enough mechanical inclination to work wood, you have also have plenty of it, in droves, to restore a quality made table saw. I have done 2 complete disassembly/restorations on PM 66's, and 3 PM 72's, and I can tell you they are one of the simplest and easiest machines to restore and setup. Only jointers are simpler and easier.

    Anything can be turned into "minty fresh" with a little elbow grease. As far as being "new with a warranty" goes, a quality saw like a PM 66 doesn't need a warranty. A big part of the problem I personally have against the new asian machines is how many times I actually see it reported that the warranty is actually needed, because of poor build quality to begin with.

    Food for thought....here are just a couple pictures of Powermatic train wrecks, totally abused machines, that I restored, back to "minty fresh" that will still be working perfectly, no warranty needed, 50 years from now, with just a little bit of annual maintenance. These are still machines....so, yeah.....you've got to tune them up and clean them up a little once or twice a year. Less frequent than an oil change on your car, and far less work.

    First, my current PM 66. All done for under $1000, including new fence, bearings, paint, and Forrest WW2.





    Here's an even worse Powermatic 72 from 1964. Had the tables reground. This one came with the full cast iron extension. Phenomenal saw when finished. Never should have sold it. All in, under $1000 also, including the regrind.





    All finished



    I don't think you'll ever regret erring on the side of overall quality. When I was first starting out 30 years ago, I didn't know any better, and there wasn't an internet forum to get good, sound advice from. I made a lot of machine purchasing errors, all of them quite costly. In the end, I upgraded all my asian made machines to quality vintage iron, and lost thousands of dollars selling those turds. Whatever you end up spending on the used Powermatic 66, you'll be able to keep it for a decade or two, and if you decide to move up to a bigger, better saw down the road, you'll be able to easily sell it and get your investment back, too. There has always been a good market for quality, Made in the USA, woodworking and metalworking machinery. Quality doesn't go out of fashion, even when green paint does.
    Jeff

  14. #29
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    Those are some fine looking restorations Jeff. I wouldn't hesitate to buy one of your flips. But I don't have the time or tools myself.
    Marshall
    ---------------------------
    A Stickley fan boy.

  15. #30
    1800 for a 20 year old 66 sounds insane. I've purchased similar vintage Martin's and SCMIs for that price.

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