New Table Saw Input/Advice

[Ryan Higgins-Winter Haven]

Seems to be everyone is in agreement about the Grizzly and Laguna, or a used Unisaw. Maybe I should post a poll? Might be interesting to see the results if the choices are narrowed down a bit.

[Phillip Gregory]

The biggest questions you need to answer are:

1. What do you intend to do with the saw and do you have any other powered saws (bandsaw, radial arm saw, sliding compound miter saw, track saw, etc)?

2. What do you have for electrical service to your shop area? If you do not have 240 volt service and cannot run a line down to your shop, or an extension cord to the dryer outlet, you are limited to 120 volt tools with a 1 1/2 hp motor or smaller. That means older 1 to 1 1/2 hp Unisaws and newer hybrid saws. If you have 30-40 amps of 240, you can run about anything including giant old industrial saws much larger than a typical cabinet saw.

3. How comfortable are you with rehabbing an older piece of equipment?

4. How easy is it to get a saw into your shop area? This was my biggest thought when I got my saw as my shop was in a basement where tools had to be carried down a set of stairs. I couldn't get the 2000 pound giant old industrial saw I really would have liked down the stairs, so I got a typical 10" 3 hp cabinet saw that disassembled into 100-200 pound pieces and was able to get it down the stairs.


I currently have the Shop Fox equivalent of a Grizzly G0691, a 3 hp 10" left tilt Unisaw clone with a Biesemeyer clone fence and a riving knife. You can get the basic model of this for about $1500. It is a decent piece of equipment and a big step up in power and stability from a Lowe's contractor saw or benchtop tablesaw. I mostly use mine to rip finished stock to width and cut broken-down sheet good panels to final size. It excels at those tasks. I use a circular saw and a straightedge to break down sheet goods into approximately the right size, a radial arm saw for dados and crosscutting, a bandsaw to resaw stock over 3" thick, and my shaper does my tenons and rabbets. I have done all of those operations on my cabinet saw and it does not do as good of a job or work as easily as those tools do. If I couldn't have the other tools, I would get a giant old sliding tablesaw such as an Oliver or Wadkin with about a 16" blade. They weigh about a ton, aren't easy to find, and essentially all of them are 3 phase only so you'd need to deal with that (not hard, I have four 3 phase tools, but you do need to address it.)

[Ryan Higgins-Winter Haven]

This is why I love SC. Cant get input like this from reliable sources anywhere else. Thanks for the advice Gregory.
As of now, I have a band, track, and a sliding compound, so I'd be using it much in the same way you use yours.
I've apparently got the juice- something I didn't realize when i started the post.
I'm comfortable enough rehabbing if the price was right, but I'm not against spending a few hundred dollars to spare myself the few months of work it would take me considering my shop time is always getting eaten up by other "obligations" and "honey-do's"
The new shop has a big sliding glass door on one end, so I could just about park an entire mill in there if I wanted to- but I wouldn't haha
I'm starting to look at the griz 691 and the 1023

[Todd Bender]

I like old steel and more horsepower, but I've also been making a living with table saws for 25 years. I would advise a hobbyist to put a lot of thought to the added safety of a SawStop or at least a riving knife, something most of the old steel doesn't offer.

[Phillip Gregory]

This is why I love SC. Cant get input like this from reliable sources anywhere else. Thanks for the advice Gregory.
As of now, I have a band, track, and a sliding compound, so I'd be using it much in the same way you use yours.
I've apparently got the juice- something I didn't realize when i started the post.
I'm comfortable enough rehabbing if the price was right, but I'm not against spending a few hundred dollars to spare myself the few months of work it would take me considering my shop time is always getting eaten up by other "obligations" and "honey-do's"
The new shop has a big sliding glass door on one end, so I could just about park an entire mill in there if I wanted to- but I wouldn't haha
I'm starting to look at the griz 691 and the 1023

I would recommend against a saw with long rip fence rails if you have a SCMS and a track saw. My Grizzly G0691 in a different paint job has the long rip fence and I have used the extra capacity over a "short" rip fence saw exactly once to cut a sheet of plywood. I then broke out the circular saw and a straightedge and have been using that ever since. The short fence saws have more than enough capacity and take up much less space. You can also use a standard mobile base with one rather than needing the extra T extension to put the extended table's legs on the base as well.

You probably would be well served with a typical 10" cabinet saw as you have a SCMS and a bandsaw. A 3 hp motor on a 10" saw will do anything you can throw at the saw and you'd do anything that you can't handle on a 10" cabinet saw with your other equipment. Your choices are either buy a used Unisaw for $500-700 or the slightly better Powermatic 66 for about $800-1000 or buy a new Grizzly G0690 or G1023 for about $1500. (A new Jet or Powermatic PM2000 are much more expensive and give you little to nothing extra over a Grizzly, and I suspect they are essentially the same saw with a different paint color.)

A used Unisaw would be my #3 choice as they do not have riving knives, the blades tilt to the right, and they often come with smaller 1 to 1 1/2 hp motors and a switch or mechanical rather than magnetic starter. They are solid saws but a riving knife is a BIG improvement, unless you are willing to fabricate a precisely-milled and perfectly-located splitter behind the blade in your blade insert (which would be a modification you would need to do as the saws did not come with splitters.) I used a 1 hp contractor saw growing up and it was grossly underpowered, it was easy to stall that saw. I can't say if 1 1/2 hp or 2 hp is enough, but I have had a 3 hp saw for years and have never managed to bog it down, 3 hp is plenty for a 10" saw. They generally came with a switch rather than a magnetic starter and the old-style tubular fence is inferior to the Biesemeyer or its clones on newer saws. But, you can find a serviceable Unisaw for $500 or so locally in a few weeks, while PM66s are far less common and cost more, and a new Grizzly will show up at your door in a week but costs 3x as much.

The PM66 is a little heavier than a Unisaw or new Grizzly saw and has a little better fit and finish. They typically have 3 hp motors and magnetic starters, are left tilt, typically have a Biesemeyer fence, but lack a riving knife. This would be my choice of a 10" old cabinet saw but it would be a difficult decision between a good PM66 and a new Grizzly as the cost difference isn't great and the PM66 does not have a riving knife.

I strongly prefer big old heavy equipment and would recommend a Delta 12/14, Powermatic 72, or one of the real big old saws like an Oliver 270, Tannewitz U, a Northfield "variety saw," etc. Prices are close to what you'd pay for a new Grizzly and you get a larger, heavier, more capable saw. You really don't need one of these but they are very solid, are smoother because of the increased heft and solidity of the castings, and have the smoothness associated with using a small fraction of the machine's capacity and never getting close to its limits. You can buy newer, heavier saws, the Grizzly G0696X/G0697X 12" saw is a decent example at $2500, but it's a grand more than a 10" G1023.

You can put a very heavy piece of equipment on a mobile base, I have a 2200 pound Whitney shaper that I made a base for out of 2x6s and a set of 700 lb capacity wheels and I can move it around well enough for my irregularly-shaped and not that big shop.

As far as the G0690 vs. G1023, the G0690 is a left-tilt clone of the Unisaw while the G1023 is a newer design. The G0690 is a little heavier while the G1023 has better dust collection. The G0690 has its dust port on the right side of the cabinet while the G1023 has its on the rear of the saw. That primarily makes a difference if you make a hinged-off-the-back-of-the-saw outfeed table as the G1023 cannot have as long of a table else it hits the dust hose, the G0690 can have a table about 7" longer as all it needs to do is clear the floor. There are many G069* vs. G1023 threads and the general consensus is that both are decent 10" cabinet saws and if a 10" cabinet saw will work for you, you'll like either. I picked the Shop Fox G0691 clone as that was the saw the local dealer had in stock, as you can't buy a Grizzly-branded saw locally unless you live near Springfield, MO or Bellingham, WA and pick it up from their two showrooms. Picking up a saw locally and having it forklifted from a warehouse into your truck is MUCH better than having it shipped. Grizzly sells a limited selection of essentially identical equipment through a nationwide network of dealers under the Shop Fox name. My G0691 clone has been a very decent saw for what I use it for, I have a decent number of hours on it, and I would not hesitate to recommend it to somebody looking for a 10" cabinet saw.

As far as a SawStop is concerned...that's a political topic around here but suffice to say I've been woodworking for decades without using one and "still have all ten," and a SawStop PCS that would be comparable to a Grizzly cabinet saw would be *considerably* out of your budget. It's in the same price league as an inexpensive sliding tablesaw which is arguably safer as your fingers "should" be very far away from the blade on the sliding table backstop and much more versatile as those can cut full sized sheet goods easily while a traditional-style cabinet saw cannot. I'll stop there to not invoke "ThreadStop" as further discussion about SawStop invariably locks threads as it gets into the ethical issues with the lawyer that founded the company and his attempts to get the government to mandate his proprietary technology. I do wholeheartedly endorse riving knives, I grew up using a saw without one and you HAD to use a second person on the outfeed side to guide the pieces and keep them from pinching else you'd get kickback. A riving knife allows me to safely work by myself and all I need is something on the outfeed end to keep the board from falling on the floor. I've ripped thousands of feet of stock on my saw and the riving knife is something I'd really hate to be without.

[scott spencer]

The step from a hybrid to a 3hp industrial style cabinet saw is significant. It's a jump in class of saw, sort of like going from an S10 to a Silverado 3500. The G1023RL is among the best bangs for the buck in a new saw IMO. If you have 220v, there's question in my mind. I also made that jump from a good General International contractor saw to a 22124 hybrid to a Shop Fox W1677 3hp cabinet saw....both the GI and the 22124 were very good saws, but the Shop Fox is so much more saw. No regrets.

[Josh Kocher]

I have a 2HP General International contractor saw. It has a Beismeyer fence with short rails. It holds its accuracy reasonably well, it has a good blade, I like it fine enough. I use it always with the stock splitter and a guard.

Like you mentioned, I use my track saw for breaking down sheets and a lot of other work that many would typically do on a tablesaw, with a largeish shop built MFT type worktable it's just easy.
I also have a scms and bandsaw so the tablesaw isn't the focus of work in my shop.

Since DC is a problem on this type of saw, I closed in the base with plywood and attached a piece of cardboard - which was originally going to be a template to make one out of hardboard but worked well on its own - to the back of the saw with rare earth magnets to close it in. 5" duct ventilates this area well. I also replaced the stock guard with a Felder guard with dust extraction hookup.

Now the DC is quite good. I'm not at all in a hurry to upgrade this saw...

If I did though...

1st choice would be a Euro slider.

2nd choice would be a late model, used General 350, left tilt, with a riving knife. Tough to find though.

3rd choice would be a new Laguna cabinet/hybrid saws.

As for sawstops, I'll throw in my 25¢ too... it isn't going to stop kickback... if you use a splitter/riving knife and work smart, that's your best defence... and the blade guard is the best way to keep your fingers safe if all else fails. Always use the guard.

[Mike Null]

I don't have any experience with the Laguna TS but if it's anywhere near as good as my Laguna bandsaw it'll serve you well. I'm also a fan of Unisaw.

[Rick Moyer]

I have a Grizzly G0691. Very happy with it. If I had a lot more discretionary income I'd probably own a SawStop. Although if discretionary income wasn't an issue I'd really probably own a Euro slider... I went from a Craftsman contractor saw to the G0691 because I wanted bigger motor, better fence, riving knife, etc. The riving knife eliminated older saws at the time.

[Mike Hollingsworth]

I sold my 1970 Unisaw( which I restored )for a G1023RL to get a riving knife and couldn't be happier. I LOVE the riving knife.

Riving Knife is the most important safety feature since electricity.

[Ryan Higgins-Winter Haven]

I'm looking very seriously at the 1023 now myself. Ever find yourself wishing you'd added the "w" and had the router table addition? Its currently only a $100 difference between the RL and RLW which makes me feel like it might just be a "why the heck not" purchase

[andy bessette]

Unsubscribed.

[Rod Sheridan]

I would either buy a small Euro slider or a Sawstop.

The Euro slider is far ahead of a cabinet saw, however if you really want a cabinet saw the SS is the only one I would consider as they're a good quality saw with an outstanding safety system.......Regards, Rod.

[Rod Sheridan]

A few years ago I converted my saw to variable speed, starting with an 1800 rpm motor. So now it runs half the tip speed, or less. I really like it that way. See if any new saws can be provided that way. (100 miles an hour is noisy, dusty and more dangerous)

Hi Tom, reducing your blade speed too much can increase the risk of accident with the saw.

Tip speed lower than 40m/s (approximately 8,000 ft/min) results in an increased risk of kickback.

For a 10" diameter blade that's approximately 3,000 RPM.............Regards, Rod.