5 panel door build (help)

[Mike OBryan]

Hello all. I’m going to be building this 5 panel door. I believe i’ve worked out most of the joinery and techniques to have a success build. I do have a question on rabbeting the stiles and rails for the step down. The problem I’m going to run into is rabbeting the stiles. They need to be stopped rabbets where the rails meet. What technique should I use to have this corner crisp? I’m using a veritas plow plane. I’m thinking a cross grain knife wall and chop the stop with a chisel. maybe go in with a router plane to clean up the bottom and corner of the rabbit. With my plow plane I can only rabbit up to within an couple inches of the stop do to the fence. So at least 2-3 inches of rabbit will have to be hand cut. Also i’m only working with hand tools. Any suggestions will be appreciated.

BA0DD42E-D68A-4D9F-A64F-5B44A4A3D174.jpeg

[John TenEyck]

You need to rethink the construction. Normally, doors like that have dados plowed in the stiles and rails and the panels are captured in them when you glue up the door. You can use rabbets and then hold the panels with trim strips, but the rabbets would go full length and the rails would be cut with a rabbet on the ends to form a half lapped joint. Alternatively, you would use full length rabbets and Jack miters where the rails meet the stiles.

Dados and captured panels is the simplest and best looking approach.

John

[Rod Sheridan]

There are no stopped machining procedures used to make that door.

The rails and stiles can be grooved in their entirety and the panels set into the grooves.

The top rails should have deep mortice and tenon joints............Rod.

[Mike OBryan]

There are no stopped machining procedures used to make that door.

The rails and stiles can be grooved in their entirety and the panels set into the grooves.

The top rails should have deep mortice and tenon joints............Rod.

So the molding i'm seeing around each panel is nothing more than additional molding tacked into place? My plan was to build as you all suggested but then to do an additional shallow rabbet on each stile and rail rather than have to add additional moldings to the panel. I'm pretty green so if this doesn't make sense I understand

[steven c newman]

Some used a "sash" cutter....makes a molded edge inside and out, and a groove down the center.

Screen door build a few years ago...( did not need any glue)
IMAG0195.jpg
Grooves ploughed..
IMAG0200.jpg
Through mortises chopped..
top rail mortise.jpg
Trimmed for the rails....
IMAG0206.jpg
Lock rail being fitted. Joints used two pins in a drawbore sort of joint...
IMAG0205.jpg
test fitting a couple raised panels..
pins & wedges.jpg
I did put a dab of glue on the pins and wedges. tenons had a pair of saw kerfs, to house the wedges.
And this was just for a screen door...bottom half raised panels, top half was a screen.

[Jerry Miner]

Mike-- it sounds like you're trying to "re-invent the wheel". Traditional door construction would not use stopped rabbets-- or any rabbets for that matter. Stiles and rails are grooved (not rabbeted). Any "sticking"-- or molding profile-- is cut into the stiles and rails and either coped (if using power equipment) or jack-mitered (if using hand tools) (you can see this in Steven's pics above)

[Jim Koepke]

Howdy Mike and welcome to the Creek.

Your project would have me off to the architectural salvage dealers looking for a door that could do the job.

Good luck.

jtk

[Warren Mickley]

In general, we make rabbets for glass and grooves for wood panels. The glass panes get rabbets and applied mouldings or putty, because they are much more likely to need to be taken apart for breakage. Frames for wood panels have the mouldings cut on the frame itself, not tacked on after the panel is in.

There are no stopped rabbets or stopped grooves; we plough straight through. The gap is filled up with part of the rail next to the tenon, either having different shoulders front and back or having an appendage on the tenon to fill up the groove at the end. If you make a practice joint, you can see if there needs to be more left on the rail to fill a rabbet or groove.

[lowell holmes]

I would leave the rails wide, cut them to length, cope the ends, and then rip the rails to width.
Then I would mold the sides of the rails.

[Pat Barry]

I would leave the rails wide, cut them to length, cope the ends, and then rip the rails to width.
Then I would mold the sides of the rails.

the rails are always machined on the ends to mate perfectly with the stiles. There are numerous router bit sets just for this purpose.

[lowell holmes]

the rails are always machined on the ends to mate perfectly with the stiles. There are numerous router bit sets just for this purpose.

I own router bits that do this.

[Warren Mickley]

the rails are always machined on the ends to mate perfectly with the stiles. There are numerous router bit sets just for this purpose.

We were doing frame and panel construction for many centuries before router bits were invented. Rails are not "always machined on the ends"; several historic methods come to mind.

[James Pallas]

If you are working by hand heed Warren's advice. No stopped rabbets needed.
Jim

[Pat Barry]

We were doing frame and panel construction for many centuries before router bits were invented. Rails are not "always machined on the ends"; several historic methods come to mind.

Which ones Warren? Maybe just a simple shakeresque design? The rail is still machined, er planed, to match the stile. No need for router bits. Not sure what you are advocating.

[Pat Barry]

If you are working by hand heed Warren's advice. No stopped rabbets needed.
Jim

Warren's advice is not very clear. Perhaps with an illustration it would make more sense. This is a big door. It needs large mortice and tenons for strength and stability. Therabbets, grooves, profiles are not so important as purely decorative in whatever style is required.