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Thread: Flattening the sole of a cast steel hand plane?

  1. #46
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    Soles precision ground to 0.00001? marketing hype, is about all...
    Is anyone actually claiming such a tolerance or is this just for emphasis?

    jtk
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Koepke View Post
    Is anyone actually claiming such a tolerance or is this just for emphasis?

    jtk
    The only one I’ve ever seen working to those tolerances is Dan Gelbart. Look up his name and “air bearing.” He beats it by another decimal point. Of course, he’s not a woodworker.

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce Haugen View Post
    The only one I’ve ever seen working to those tolerances is Dan Gelbart. Look up his name and “air bearing.” He beats it by another decimal point. Of course, he’s not a woodworker.
    My QC lab has a Z-mic that will measure to those tolerances. Not practical.
    If the thunder don't get you, the lightning will.

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Zaffuto View Post
    My QC lab has a Z-mic that will measure to those tolerances. Not practical.
    Not at all practical, especially for woodworking purposes. It’s achievable, though, when conditions warrant, e.g., if you’re grinding a Hubble telescope lens, but not if you’re flattening a plane. I never did find out the tolerances claimed by Karl Holtey.

  5. #50
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    This one was done this evening...
    Block Planes, worthington sole.JPG
    And, given a test drive, once the iron was sharpened up...
    Block Planes, front view, W2200.JPG
    Saving another one for tomorrow
    Block Planes, ugly sole.JPG
    Might take a while..5 block planes needed rehabbed...one done 4 to go...
    Block Planes, Great Neck sole.JPG
    With #4 taking the longest.
    YMMV...

  6. #51
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    Prefer his Rachels Standing Desk
    back view.jpgcorner details.jpgside view.jpglid opened.jpgfront view.jpg
    But, mainly in Curly Maple, with a few bits of Cherry...

    In High School, back in the 60s....Not only did we learn metal working ( I sucked at welding) Drafting, but also all sorts of woodworking tasks. We had to not draw the various wood joints...we have to make each joint with hand tools...and be graded on each. And..that was how long ago?

  7. #52
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    All you need is the right setup.



    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce Haugen View Post
    Not at all practical, especially for woodworking purposes. Itís achievable, though, when conditions warrant, e.g., if youíre grinding a Hubble telescope lens, but not if youíre flattening a plane. I never did find out the tolerances claimed by Karl Holtey.

  8. #53
    Do yourself a favor and save yourself some money at the same time. Don't bother trying to flatten it.
    Tom

  9. #54
    Do you reckon he does finer work though, its that kind of style you would expect to see on that show.
    I've heard James Hamilton mention he does, obviously not talking about the Woodwrights shop, but he's not exactly at the David Charlesworth end of the spectrum either.

    I can post some folks videos if you like, of what a planing looks like with the close set cap iron, there's not many folks using it.
    You might realise what I'm talking about, for the plane set up like above to work correctly, compared to just having a large camber that will work regardless of what state the sole is in like what that daft video demonstrates.
    The errors might be more apparent if you were to compare two long planes together, or learn to set the cap iron and use the plane then.

    Tom

  10. #55
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    Why wouldn't you just hand scrape them use a surface plate and ink?

  11. #56
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    If the plane is valued, take it to a machine shop and have the sole ground. I did that one time and it is a permanent fix.

  12. #57
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    Fool's errand...

  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Hennebury View Post
    Why wouldn't you just hand scrape them use a surface plate and ink?
    For many folks, not having a surface plate, a hand scraper or ink might be a reason for hesitation in undertaking such an endeavor.

    Alas we have strayed far afield of the original posting:

    Quote Originally Posted by Lasse Hilbrandt View Post
    On YT there are a lot of videos that show how to flatten the sole on hand planes. It seems fairly easy, but I wonder if there are anything that can go wrong if the tecnique is not right?
    Can one accidently be "rounding" the sole instead because of more gringding at the ends than in the middle of the sole ?

    Is a granite plate from a window usually flat enough for the job ?

    What grit size should I end up with ?

    Thanks..
    So far there have been responses to the 'what can possibly go wrong' questions:

    Yes, things can go wrong with poor planning or "technique."

    Yes, "one can accidentally be "rounding" the sole," both side to side and toe to heel if not careful in understanding the problem with the sole and having a plan on correcting it.

    Lapping a sole isn't an automatic back and forth movement over an abrasive surface.

    There are also two questions in the original post that have been left unanswered:

    Is a granite plate from a window usually flat enough for the job ?
    My guess is most folks are not sure about "granite plates from windows." This may be due to Lasse being in Denmark and building components are made with different material than what others are familiar.

    If one is going to work on the sole of a plane having a known flat surface is important.

    For removal of light rust, a sanding block has done well for me. One time my sanding block was a long piece of wood salvaged from a table:

    https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?114373

    The third post is where the sole lapping begins. This was about a year before buying a hunk of granite from a monument maker:

    Granite on Horse.jpg

    This doesn't get as much use as it did in the past. It still comes in handy for abrasive needs.

    As far as grit size goes, my planes are worked to a 320 grit. 80 grit would work, but it looks ugly until the sole is worn in a bit.

    One important thing to consider before doing any work on the sole of a plane is know what it is that is to be accomplished. If you do not know, do not start.

    jtk
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

  14. #59
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    They must be no good at all unless measured to a 1/4 wavelength of light by interference bands between the sole, and an optical flat.
    https://www.lapmaster-wolters.com/optical-flats.html

    My best friend, and I hand ground telescope optics when we were teenagers. It was much harder to grind an optical flat than a parabolic telescope mirror. Someone mentioned the Hubble. When they were looking for a fix of the first design, my friend carried the 12-1/2" f/6 we'd made when we were teenagers into the optics lab-blanks ordered from Edmund scientific. It was better than anything they had in house, and my friend was put on the team that designed, and built the fix.

    I never had much trouble flattening plane soles.

  15. #60
    I thought I replied this morning and said to save yourself some time and money and don't try. The world is not flat like 99 percent seem to think, Most scratch up the bottom and think they flattened it. And I deleted the pictures of how I held the plane so I could grind the bottom by accident so I couldn't post it. The plane in the pictures took a couple of hours to do and the machine's sole purpose is to remove metal. Save your money, make sure it is sharp enough to shave with and use it as is.

    DSC02423.JPG DSC02424.JPG
    Tom

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