Saw Skills

[ken hatch]

Shannon Rogers over at http://www.renaissancewoodworker.com/ made a statement that I've long felt was true but had never heard articulated. That saw skills were the foundational skill set of woodworking.


If you can saw to a line everything else is easy. We go on and on about sharpening, natural stones vs. man made, what steel is best HC vs. A2. Wood stock planes vs. metal and so on. Bottom line if you can saw, and any saw that is sharp will work from the cheapest to a fully blinged out Bad Axe, making joints is quick and easy. If you can not, well you are in for a lot of work that often does not turn out well.

ken

[Frederick Skelly]

Shannon Rogers over at http://www.renaissancewoodworker.com/ made a statement that I've long felt was true but had never heard articulated. That saw skills were the foundational skill set of woodworking.


If you can saw to a line everything else is easy. We go on and on about sharpening, natural stones vs. man made, what steel is best HC vs. A2. Wood stock planes vs. metal and so on. Bottom line if you can saw, and any saw that is sharp will work from the cheapest to a fully blinged out Bad Axe, making joints is quick and easy. If you can not, well you are in for a lot of work that often does not turn out well.

ken

Based on my recent dovetail experience, I absolutely agree with you Ken. I'll go watch that link, too.
Thanks,
Fred

[James Pallas]

Sawing is likely the most essential skill in woodworking. More time can be saved with accurate saw skills than most other operations. I hear and see things like " leave a sixteenth or even an eight and clean up with a plane". When I was schooled in sawing my mentor would say things like "take the line" or "leave the line". He also said things like, "I can hear that saw flapping like bvd's on a clothesline in a hurricane". I still do okay. Age and eyesight has taken some away but the masters voice is still heard. I think about it each time I pick up a saw hand or powered.
Jim

[Jim Koepke]

When I was schooled in sawing my mentor would say things like "take the line" or "leave the line".

My tendency is to barely leave the line:

Clean Edges.jpg

The knifed line can be seen all around without waste to trim.

jtk

[Stanley Covington]

This is something I have been saying on this forum for years, although not always well received. Indeed, I just had an offline conversation with a Creeker on this point.

“Cut then Pare” with a chisel or “ Cut then Plane” with a shoulder plane or router plane may be necessary fixes for poor saw technique or errors ( everyone makes them), but they should not be standard practice.

These teachings cripple development.

We should all aim for professional- level skills. This means we cut tenons and other joints so they fit right off the saw blade without paring or planing. Anyone can do it. It doesn’t take an expensive saw. Set goals. Analyze mistakes. Correct. Examine. Repeat.

[Patrick Chase]

Shannon Rogers over at http://www.renaissancewoodworker.com/ made a statement that I've long felt was true but had never heard articulated. That saw skills were the foundational skill set of woodworking.


If you can saw to a line everything else is easy. We go on and on about sharpening, natural stones vs. man made, what steel is best HC vs. A2. Wood stock planes vs. metal and so on. Bottom line if you can saw, and any saw that is sharp will work from the cheapest to a fully blinged out Bad Axe, making joints is quick and easy. If you can not, well you are in for a lot of work that often does not turn out well.

ken

Hmm, how can we spice up this thread.... I've got it, saw sharpening.

Seriously, I basically agree with this thesis. It's called *cutting* joinery for a reason. That's why I cited the realization that I could saw sort of straight as my own moment of neander nirvana in that thread a little while back.

[Warren Mickley]

I could not agree more, Stanley. When people are so afraid of messing things up, craftsmanship suffers.

Forty years ago Dan O'Hagan, who was a pioneer in hand work, said to me "Don't be ashamed of your mistakes." I wasn't sure what he meant by that, but I took it to mean that I should go for the line and just take the consequences. The result was that rather than getting sloppier as one might have expected, everything became both neater and faster.

There is a thought that one should do professional looking work right at the outset. Learn to make professional joints in a weekend workshop. The result is that the teachers develop alternative techniques to ensure success. These techniques actually delay the development of skills.

[sean contenti]

Maybe the pushback Stan mentions comes from relative newbies (such as myself) for whom the idea is, frankly, a little intimidating. I totally agree with the premise - but up at the salt face, it's really easy for a less-than-confident sawyer to rationalize "oh, well I really don't want to dive into the joint, so I'll leave a good margin and trim it down".

EDIT - and the rationalization likely gets easier for those of us who aren't relying on woodworking to pay the bills. It largely takes away a time crunch, so the idea of taking the extra time to trim waste gets that little extra mental nudge

[Derek Cohen]

This is something I have been saying on this forum for years, although not always well received. Indeed, I just had an offline conversation with a Creeker on this point.

“Cut then Pare” with a chisel or “ Cut then Plane” with a shoulder plane or router plane may be necessary fixes for poor saw technique or errors ( everyone makes them), but they should not be standard practice.

These teachings cripple development.

We should all aim for professional- level skills. This means we cut tenons and other joints so they fit right off the saw blade without paring or planing. Anyone can do it. It doesn’t take an expensive saw. Set goals. Analyze mistakes. Correct. Examine. Repeat.

Stan, I've said the same on numerous occasions. Aim to fit dovetails off the saw. The number of articles I've read that argue that one should pare away the last mm .... sigh. Ditto, saw tenon cheeks to the line. It requires a go-for-it attitude. Without this progressing is going to be very slow.

Regards from Auckland

Derek

[Stanley Covington]

Hear hear!

Excellent points, Warren.

[Stanley Covington]

Don’t be afraid to glue some wood slips to a FU’d joint and resaw. But always strive to figure out why the error happened, and think of ways to correct it. The skills will come quicker as Warren and Derek pointed out.

[Brian Holcombe]

Couldn't agree more! The best thing I did for my own woodworking was to cut half-laps for art frames by hand. It's such a tedious bit of work if you miss the line and so I trained myself to saw the side of the line and have a good joint in a few moments rather than sawing away from the line and paring.

Paring is higher risk than accurately sawing. I have to pare things here and there but on the whole I feel it is something to avoid.

[Jim Koepke]

Hmm, how can we spice up this thread.... I've got it, saw sharpening.

Learning to sharpen has improved my sawing through better understanding of a saw's mechanics.

My sawing still needs a bit of paring as often as not. My saw skill is improving. Hopefully the need to pare a joint into fitting will diminish more in the future.

A swipe or two on the shooting board to smooth the end grain is good for me.

jtk

[Matt Lau]

It would be nice to get some basic saw practice drills.

[Jim Koepke]

It would be nice to get some basic saw practice drills.

Not sure what you mean by this. Most of the time my practice is either dovetails or sawing to a line. On rip cuts it is kind of fun and challenge to mark off a bunch of lines about 1/8" appart and then after cutting them all saw half way in between without a line.

jtk