Question About Water Based Dye Stain and Planning

[Richard Line]

I've used water based dye stain a number of times and I like it. My question has to do with grain raising, as occurs when using a water based finish. I've read of the need to raise the grain and then sand the raised grain off before applying the finish. The sanding does work, but.... Would a light planning (say 1 or 2 1,000th thick) be just as good, or does that expose more grain that will then raise.

[Pat Barry]

I've used water based dye stain a number of times and I like it. My question has to do with grain raising, as occurs when using a water based finish. I've read of the need to raise the grain and then sand the raised grain off before applying the finish. The sanding does work, but.... Would a light planning (say 1 or 2 1,000th thick) be just as good, or does that expose more grain that will then raise.

I think you would take off too much. Light sanding, ie 220 or 300 grit, just ti knock off nubs. Maybe could do a very light scraper, but why?

[Mel Fulks]

If the sanding seems like a nuisance you are probably doing too much. You use new sharp paper lightly and therefore quickly.

[John Kee]

Typically you have to take off at least .015" to remove feed roller marks with most planers which removes your dye stain. Knock off the grain raise with 500P and lightly reapply stain if you get too much showing through.

[Richard Line]

Thanks for the replies. I've done the sanding without problem. And yes with 220 or 320 grit done lightly. Not that much of a nuisance. The pieces (poplar) will have been finished planned with all the mill and my marks taken off and should have a nice smooth and burnished surfaces that I'd like to keep. That was really what was behind my question.

[Patrick Chase]

I've used water based dye stain a number of times and I like it. My question has to do with grain raising, as occurs when using a water based finish. I've read of the need to raise the grain and then sand the raised grain off before applying the finish. The sanding does work, but.... Would a light planning (say 1 or 2 1,000th thick) be just as good, or does that expose more grain that will then raise.

Out of curiosity, are you applying stain to a sanded or hand-planed surface to begin with? The reason I ask is that well-planed surfaces are far more resistant to grain raising to begin with. "Grain raising" is actually closer to "torn fiber stiffening and raising", and planed surfaces don't have such fibers. The catch is that stains also behave differently on planed surfaces, which may or may not be an issue for you.

In any case, assuming that grain-raising can't be avoided you really don't want to sand into your stained surface. One common way to deal with this is to put a coat or two of sealant (I usually use shellac) on top of the stain and then level that.

[Richard Line]

Patrick, I've done it both ways, but mostly on sanded surfaces. What kicked me into thinking about this was a staining a nicely planned surface and liking the result. The problem is I can't remember if I had applied water to raise the grain and then lightly sanded before putting the stain on, or just put the stain on after planning. I have also needed to apply additional coats of the dye stain to get the color I wanted; there doesn't seem to be any additional grain raising after that first grain raising, sanding and staining.