What determines a chisel's quality?

[Warren Mickley]

What makes a good chisel is a strong community of artisans, both woodworkers and toolmakers. The degree of interaction, the degree of discrimination among these people is what fosters high standards.

I use chisels that were made in England in the early 19th century. It was a time of fine craftsmanship among both users and makers. Quality waned as industrialization proceeded. In the last fifty years or so we have had a lot of effort to regain fine craftsmanship and have made great strides. I think chisels have lagged behind our woodworking craftsmanship. The makers are focused on innovation, but they are unable to even duplicate the fine efforts of the past.

These chisels sharpen extremely easily, take a very fine and durable edge. They do take some skill to learn to use. It is well worth the effort to learn to use them, and as a craftsman I am glad I have them.

[John C Cox]

Warren,
You make a fantastic point about the makers soliciting and using feedback from users being set far apart from the ones who try to build to some maketing department and purchasing department specification and then try to figure out what's easiest or cheapest to make to meet that generic specification....

While WoodCraft takes a lot of heat - it's interesting to see how their hand tools have progressed over the years based on user feedback... 10 years ago - WoodRiver planes all had A2 irons... Now they all have some sort of low alloy High Carbon Steel.. Why? Customers were not happy with A2... They used to sell A2 and HSS plane irons... Now they sell low alloy HCS plane irons. Their chisels have been through many different alloys, heat treatments, blade grinds, and handle configurations.. And over the years they have dropped brands which were not responsive to woodworkers (notice Stanley, Crown, and Sorby are mostly gone from their stores)... Some of these trials have been pretty good, some have not... But in general - my experience with them over the years is that they want to sell good stuff that people will want to buy and they are willing to experiment and work with woodworkers to figure out how to get there....

I see the same attitude out of Japanese chisel smiths.... Where many of them offer variety of patterns and even alloys and are willing to work with customers to make what people want.... For example - you often see these smiths temper "American market" chisels a bit softer than their JDM fare - because on average most American users don't like chisels at Rc 66-67... We are generally a lot happier down around 63... But they will happily sell them to you either way... Good luck getting Sorby to sell you a set of bench chisels at Rc 61.... Nope - you just get whatever comes off the shelf next...

[Matt Lau]

All messing around aside, I used to be the armchair nerd (still am) obsessing over allow content, hardness, toughness, etc.
As I *use* the chisels, I find that I just have three criteria:
1. Feel in hand/balance
2. How easy to sharpen
3. How sharp, and how long it holds it.

Okay, that's four criteria.

I need to start using my chisels more...now to make a router base with them.

[Andrew Pitonyak]

Much good advice has been stated, at least one thing not mentioned (that I saw) so far.... Time spent making the chisel serviceable. Stanley touched on this from a maintenance perspective with respect to Japanese chisels, of which I own none and have never used one, but, the theory is sound and anecdotally accurate (that the slightly hollow back makes the back easy to keep flat).

Some chisels, that are usually more expensive, are uniformly ready to go out of the box and take very little to do things such as polish the back because the back is already flat. For me, For example, I have never had a Lee Valley chisel that was not very flat on the back and close to ready.

Luckily, you only do the initial prep once. It is just a question of how much time you must spend up front. I have spent a lot of time using some really cheap chisels. They sharpen very fast, get very sharp, and require frequent resharpening. I have some better steels that require less frequent sharpening.

I think that the rest of my advice to you has already been stated. If you make it out to Columbus Ohio, stop in and try a few chisels.

[Roger Nair]

As a user of old tools, I think it is important to find the right chisel in the range one needs. Suppose you were presented with a task, materials and tools. There is a rack of chisels from the largest mill chisel to the smallest carver. The choice made is going to be all about the perceived capabilities of the individual chisel and the experience of the craftsperson to make an informed choice. So quality is where design meets need.

[kaiwen he]

Since you are not looking for a Ferrari but a Honda, you need to decide what you need your chisel to do, and then, you can formulate your quality criteria.

All chisels need to cut. So, a high-quality chisel will (1) Become very sharp; (2) It will stay sharp a long time; (3) It will not chip or roll or dull quickly. These three factors are decided by (1) Steel quality (chemical content and purity); and (2) Fabrication (forging) technique; and (3) design. A high-quality chisel, therefore, will have a time-tested design, be made from high-quality steel and other materials, will be properly forged with a proper combination of the right hardness and toughness, and with high-quality crystalline structure.

All chisels need to be resharpened. So a general-purpose (versus High-speed steel chisel) high-quality chisel will be easy to sharpen. Sharpening quality is driven by hardness, but more importantly, the steel's chemical composition. Anything with tungsten is hard to sharpen.

A sharp edge is decided by the precise intersection of two planes of a blade. On of these two faces in a chisel is the face. If this is not a flat plane, truly sharp will be very difficult to obtain quickly. Plain flat faces tend to get rounded over during use and sharpening. The Japanese chisel is hollow-ground and easier/quicker to keep in shape, and quicker to get sharp. It is the only design with this feature.

A quality chisel must be durable and efficient. It is, after all, a working tool, not a decoration. If you strike it with a hammer, a high-quality chisel will accept the maximum possible force without the blade bending or breaking, and without the handle splitting or breaking. Look carefully at handle construction. The best chisels are either socket construction, or better yet, tang and ferrule construction with a steel hoop on the end to keep the handle from splitting. If you must baby the chisel by using a plastic, urethane, rawhide, or wooden hammer, it is not a high-quality working tool, even if it is pretty.

The Germanic tradition places priority on ease of sharpening, so blades are soft. The Japanese tradition places priority on edge durability, so the cutting edges are harder. The current American tradition has medium-hard blades.

The American tradition places priority on ease of manufacture, medium quality, medium to high price. The Japanese tradition is high quality, medium to high price. The Chinese tradition is low quality, low price. Most of what is sold in America nowadays is Chinese, so caveat emptor, baby.

You can't judge a chisel's quality hanging on a store wall or on an Amazon webpage.

Where did you get the information on those countries traditional?

[Jake Hillestad]

Where did you get the information on those countries traditional?

This thread is 2 years old and Stan no longer posts here so I doubt you'll be getting an answer out of him. I suspect the information came to him through decades of using and now selling tools.

[Jason Buresh]

Much good advice has been stated, at least one thing not mentioned (that I saw) so far.... Time spent making the chisel serviceable. Stanley touched on this from a maintenance perspective with respect to Japanese chisels, of which I own none and have never used one, but, the theory is sound and anecdotally accurate (that the slightly hollow back makes the back easy to keep flat).

Some chisels, that are usually more expensive, are uniformly ready to go out of the box and take very little to do things such as polish the back because the back is already flat. For me, For example, I have never had a Lee Valley chisel that was not very flat on the back and close to ready.

Luckily, you only do the initial prep once. It is just a question of how much time you must spend up front. I have spent a lot of time using some really cheap chisels. They sharpen very fast, get very sharp, and require frequent resharpening. I have some better steels that require less frequent sharpening.

I think that the rest of my advice to you has already been stated. If you make it out to Columbus Ohio, stop in and try a few chisels.

+1

The highest quality chisel in the world wont work if its dull.

Lie Nielsen, blue spruce, veritas, and japanese makers make wonderful chisels. They are beautiful and functional.

I own a $20 set of plastic handled marples.

Why? Because starting out if i bought lie nielsen's in A2 steel i would have had to buy diamond stones and a good sharpening guide. And i would have invested hundreds in just chisels, with no sharpening experience or really any use experience.

And while learning how to sharpen i accidentally ground my 1/2" chisel on a skew. This learning experience would have been much more painful if it were a $70 chisel and not a set of 3 for $20.

My marples are not the greatest for dovetails, but i can make it work. They are decent for mortise and dado work though.

I am also looking to upgrade though, and now i know what i want through experience, which is $20 well spent.

[Rafael Herrera]

Where did you get the information on those countries traditional?

As usual from facile generalizations.

A lot of the people that make these type of comments think that the companies selling these low quality tools are somehow the victims bad Chinese, or whomever, manufactures that force them to buy their inferior products.

The reality is that the manufacturers are making the product to the seller's specifications, the tools are junk because that's what they're being asked to make.

[mike stenson]

As usual from facile generalizations.

A lot of the people that make these type of comments think that the companies selling these low quality tools are somehow the victims bad Chinese, or whomever, manufactures that force them to buy their inferior products.

The reality is that the manufacturers are making the product to the seller's specifications, the tools are junk because that's what they're being asked to make.

Because it's a price point that's being worked to.

[Jim Koepke]

As usual from facile generalizations.

A lot of the people that make these type of comments think that the companies selling these low quality tools are somehow the victims bad Chinese, or whomever, manufactures that force them to buy their inferior products.

The reality is that the manufacturers are making the product to the seller's specifications, the tools are junk because that's what they're being asked to make.

Because it's a price point that's being worked to.

John Ruskin said it very well:

There is hardly anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little cheaper, and the people who consider price only are this man's lawful prey.

Having not been in a Baskin Robbins in a long time, it is not known if this quote is still appearing on their walls. Reading this was always part of the satisfaction of visiting one of their parlors.

jtk

[Jim Matthews]

Check your private messages.

[steven c newman]

One other Myth..."it cost $$$$, so it must be great.." or...."You can just FEEL the quality" ( the only thing that feels anything, would be your wallet....price alone doth not a good tool make )

[mike stenson]

One other Myth..."it cost $$$$, so it must be great.." or...."You can just FEEL the quality" ( the only thing that feels anything, would be your wallet....price alone doth not a good tool make )

No, but marketing costs aside.. you do generally get what you pay for. The tool market isn't the audio one, there's not a whole lot of snake oil salesmen that I've run into. Of the "modern" production chisels out there, I own a set of LN bench chisels. I also own a set of the old blue-handled Marples.. and a set of the Irwin branded ones.. and a set of the Narex paring chisels.

Other than A2 steel being harder, the biggest difference between all of them was how flat the backs were. The LN's aside (because they were indeed flat, and just needed final polishing), in ease of flattening and polishing were; Old Marples, Narex (even though there're longer), and the Irwin branded 'Marples'. I won't bother to compare the longevity of the edge, mostly because well.. it's been done.. and I have reground the Irwins at a shallower angle than initially purchased for softwood use. They're a bit shallower than the paring chisels, actually.

I won't even address the used tool market, because well.. that's a different kettle of fish

[Frederick Skelly]

As usual from facile generalizations.

A lot of the people that make these type of comments think that the companies selling these low quality tools are somehow the victims bad Chinese, or whomever, manufactures that force them to buy their inferior products.

The reality is that the manufacturers are making the product to the seller's specifications, the tools are junk because that's what they're being asked to make.

I agree his comment on Chinese manufacturing is a generalization and inaccurate. Price, specs and on the spot QA drives them, from what I understand.

FWIW, that seems out of character for Stan. From what I recall he was always a polite, knowledgeable man who didnt tend to overstate himself. (Stan has forgotten more about Japanese tools than most Americans have ever learned. He was/is an amazing resource.)

Fred