GF Enduro WHITE Poly for cabinet doors?

[Matt Day]

I completed my first spray finished piece of furniture last month thanks in large part to John’s good advice. I used my harbor freight purple gun with my compressor and general finishes Enduro var and was very pleased with the result.

My next project is adding some shaker style cabinet doors to existing painted built-in open shelves. Doors are complete, going to drill the 35mm holes sand then paint. I have 12 doors (about 18x30) and I would really like to spray them as brushing all of them with primer and paint sounds miserable and I hope the finish would be better spraying. These will be painted (true) white.

I have the harbor freight gun as well as a critter. At first I considered spring standard latex with the critter, but after watching some YouTube videos it looks like the spray pattern is small and it does not lay on a lot of finish. Read: it will take a long time to cover a large surface.

I also have given some thought to the HF HVLP spray kit
https://m.harborfreight.com/high-vol...kit-44677.html
Seems to get good reviews with properly thinned latex paint. Guessing this idea will be frowned upon by some here but I found a thread with praise for it. So an option I think.

Another option would be GF Enduro White poly. I found mention of this today here on SMC, and it would be easy to use my existing spray gun setup. Doesn’t appear to need priming, but I’m guessing sanding between coats.

If I use the Enduro white poly, what should I do to match the latex I’ll end up brushing/rolling on the existing cabinet? It’ll be the same white I’ll use on the trim in the room.

Thanks for any advice.

[Jim Becker]

The biggest challenge here is "matching the white", quite frankly...different products may not be the same white and here you have two strikes against that; different kinds of finish entirely and different manufacturers. I'm not familiar with whether or not the Enduro white poly can be brushed/rolled or not since I have no experience with GF finishes, but perhaps others can comment on that. Ideally, using the same finish across all of these areas would be ideal.

I historically have used SW ProClassic white for trim work and white cabinetry, such as in our kitchen. And I brushed it out because it's too thick to spray well with my HPLV guns, even with the limited thinning possible. Target does offer it's finishes in both SW and BM colors at this point and I'm using that for the new uppers (not white, but...) and it matched the BM color I chose exactly. I'm not sure if the Enduro product can be tinted, again, because I don't use GF products other than their Extender.

[John TenEyck]

Matt, Enduro White Poly is too thick to spray with the HF gun, if the one you have has a 1.4 mm N/N set, w/o a lot of thinning, likely more than you should. I think you should look at Lenmar Duralaq acrylic WB. Magnavar is another option. You can buy them at BM, and they can tint them to any BM color. They have much lower viscosity than White Poly, and I'm pretty sure you will be able to spray them with only a little thinning with water and/or Extender. The data sheet says spray only, but I'm pretty sure you will be able to brush or roll it, too, especially if you use some Extender. I've had no trouble applying Duralaq to test specimens with a foam brush.

John

[Matt Day]

John, the GF website says 1.3-1.5mm tip. Have you found that’s not true?
See this page under Step 3.
https://generalfinishes.com/wood-finishes-professional/water-based-paints-glazes-and-pigmented-top-coats/enduro-pigmented-white

Still, i’ll Look up your suggestions. Thanks

[John TenEyck]

What GF isn't saying, at least not clearly, is their recommendation is based on a pressure assisted HVLP gun, like I use. I spray White Poly with a 1.3 mm N/N set. With a gravity feed gun you would likely need at least a 2.0 mm w/o thinning.

John

[John TenEyck]

I just finished testing some Duralaq with Windex and 409. Not good; easily damaged by both after only a few minutes exposure. In comparison, GF's Enduro Clear Poly (note, not White Poly) was unfazed. So take note, Matt. My plan is to topcoat the Duralaq I had color mixed by BM with Enduro Clear Poly; adhesion testing looks good. But had I known of the poor chemical durability of Duralaq (not KCMA rated) ahead of time I would have purchased MagnaVar, which is KCMA rated.

John

[Matt Day]

Thanks for the report John. Do I have to call BM and ask about the Magnavar? Google doesn’t know anything about it.

[David Ruhland]

Thanks for the report John. Do I have to call BM and ask about the Magnavar? Google doesn’t know anything about it.

Matt... I have no idea what this stuff is... ONLY that I have a sample coming from my BM dealer... based on John T suggestions...Hell i dont even really know what Varnish is... but make sure you ask for the 1B500 series... My guy had to get the info from his BM rep... He still is not sure if this stuff can be tinted or not...Jon T can you weigh in please.... John..also have some samples of the Waterborne Sanding sealer and dura laq coming....

http://www.lenmar-coatings.com/produ...rethane-finish

[David Ruhland]

What GF isn't saying, at least not clearly, is their recommendation is based on a pressure assisted HVLP gun, like I use. I spray White Poly with a 1.3 mm N/N set. With a gravity feed gun you would likely need at least a 2.0 mm w/o thinning.

John

John...

What the heck is a "pressure assisted HVLP " gun? isnt that that lil tube that pressurizs the cup?

[Matt Day]

Interesting John. Not sure I want to be a guinea pig for a somewhat mysterious product though.

For the White Poly, it says 1.3 tip, and Enduro Var says 1.1-1.3. Same company, I’d figure they’d be a similar viscosity and I could spray with the same setup. What am I missing?

If the white poly works, I suppose I could bring it into BM or SW and get a paint match.

[John TenEyck]

Interesting John. Not sure I want to be a guinea pig for a somewhat mysterious product though.

For the White Poly, it says 1.3 tip, and Enduro Var says 1.1-1.3. Same company, I’d figure they’d be a similar viscosity and I could spray with the same setup. What am I missing?

If the white poly works, I suppose I could bring it into BM or SW and get a paint match.

Matt, they are not of similar viscosity, nor does GF recommend the same tip size. EnduroVar has a stated viscosity of 200 - 300 cps (58 - 74 sec. #4 Ford Cup; I measure it at 45 seconds typically) and a recommended 1.1 - 1.3 mm N/N set. White Poly has a stated viscosity of 600 - 800 cps (approx. 150 - 200 sec. #4 Ford; I measure it around 100 seconds) and a recommended 1.3 - 1.5 N/N set. And, as I said earlier, GF's recommended N/N sets is based on an air assisted setup which you don't have. When I spray EnduroVar with a gravity feed HVLP gun I use a 1.8 mm N/N; when I use my pressure assisted gun I use a 1.0 mm setup. With White Poly I use a 1. 3 mm N/N with my pressure assisted gun; I don't even try spraying it with my 1.8 mm gravity gun. I can't tell you how much you would have to thin it to spray well with the 1.4 mm HF gun, but I suspect it will be a lot, maybe far more than would be wise.

At this point there's not much more I can contribute. If you are determined to try it, best of luck, and let us know how it goes.

John

[Patrick Chase]

What the heck is a "pressure assisted HVLP " gun? isnt that that lil tube that pressurizs the cup?

Since John declined to reply to this: Yes, a pressure assisted gun is one in which the cup is pressurized such that the finish is driven through the nozzle by more than just suction from the air jet (siphon feed) or gravity.

A typical gravity gun with the fluid 6" above the nozzle provides about 0.25 psi of additional pressure from elevating the fluid, so the difference between that and 5-10 psi of cup pressure in a pressure-assisted rig is huge (for reference 1 atmosphere is 14.7 psi). For example Fuji's well-regarded "gravity" guns for their HVLP turbines actually rely mostly on pressure assist to move finish. This is also why Fuji's viscosity/cap recommendations are the same for their "siphon" and "gravity" guns - If you have 5-10 psi pushing on the fluid then it doesn't matter if it's sitting a few inches above or below the nozzle.

John's point is that pressure allows you to spray heavy finishes with a smaller aircap than would otherwise be possible.

Jeff Jewitt offers a pretty inexpensive pressure-assisted conversion gun (the QualSpray 6008, about halfway down the page) in both LVLP and HVLP versions. I imagine that the pressure assist is particularly useful with the LV version, where big caps are problematic due to the gun's CFM/capacity limits.

You don't see pressure assist as much in conventional and RP guns, probably because their higher tip pressure allows them to draw a stronger vacuum at the nozzle, i.e. they can siphon thicker finishes through any given cap.

[John Kee]

When I was spraying the GF white poly my standard procedure was to thin it 10% with water and spray with a HVLP gravity compressor gun. No need for pressure assist and sprayed/flowed beautifully. I would use a 1.3 or 1.5 depending on time of year, Typically the 1.5 in winter because of lower temp (65 degrees) in the shop. The CA tech guns usually come with a good selection of needles and caps so makes changes real easy. I know John T. really likes the GF extender so I was doing some reading and found GF extender can be added up to 20% with no deterioration in the finish. That sounds like the ticket for anybody struggling with a turbine setup.

[Patrick Chase]

Jeff Jewitt offers a pretty inexpensive pressure-assisted conversion gun (the QualSpray 6008, about halfway down the page) in both LVLP and HVLP versions.

Based on comments in another thread, this would appear to be the exact pressure-assisted gun that John TenEyck referenced (or at least one of them).

Note that basically any conversion gun could be made "pressure-assisted" by retrofitting with PPS and a dual-output regulator similar to the one that Jeff Jewitt ships with his 6008...

[Matt Day]

Patrick, thanks for that comment about the dual-output regulator and PPS. I’ll consider that.

I’m also considering a new gun setup, as I was so happy with spraying with the HF gun that I can’t imagine not spraying and am willing to invest in a new gun that opens up other spray options. I’m not sure if the AM-5008 or 6008 is right for me. I’m planning to call Jeff tomorrow.

Thanks all.