Electric Cars - I'm Trying to be Open Minded

[William Adams]

The difference is, the Wright Brothers started with a _very_ fundamental understanding of the physics of flight, developing an understanding as they go, while internal combustion engines and electrical motors are very well understood --- the big question is what will be the breakthroughs in battery chemistry and physics and other energy storage systems --- and what the constituents of the earth's crust will allow us to build in quantity.

We've already had one company get caught out by picking a battery chemistry before securing an adequate supply of the rare earths which it needs.

For life, either potassium or phosphorous is the limiting element in the earth's crust --- which element will be the limit on what electronic gadgets we can have?

[Dan Friedrichs]

The "but I need to drive 300 miles!" crowd is missing the bigger picture.

10 years from now, it's quite possible the car will be self-driving, and private car ownership will start to become uncommon. You need to go 500 miles? Pull up the app on your phone, schedule a trip - car A picks you up and takes you 300 miles (the range of its battery) then rendezvous with car B to finish the trip while it drives itself to a recharging station.

[Mike Henderson]

The "but I need to drive 300 miles!" crowd is missing the bigger picture.

10 years from now, it's quite possible the car will be self-driving, and private car ownership will start to become uncommon. You need to go 500 miles? Pull up the app on your phone, schedule a trip - car A picks you up and takes you 300 miles (the range of its battery) then rendezvous with car B to finish the trip while it drives itself to a recharging station.

That may be what happens, but when I take a 500 mile car trip, and plan to stay at a location for a while, the car is loaded up. I wouldn't be happy having to move everything over to another car. I don't even like to unload my car when I get home

Mike

[Brian Henderson]

That may be what happens, but when I take a 500 mile car trip, and plan to stay at a location for a while, the car is loaded up. I wouldn't be happy having to move everything over to another car. I don't even like to unload my car when I get home

Exactly, that's what I would have had to do on my trip, I would have had to unload a ton of stuff between cars, especially on the return trip where the trunk was stuffed full, the back seat was stuffed full and there's no way I'm going to do that over and over again. And self-driving cars? Never. Will never be in one and will never own one.

[Perry Hilbert Jr]

I had a Honda Hybrid 2002. The vehicle was good, averaged 60 MPG on trips. The Honda CVT transmissions that year were junk, often failing at under 75k miles. Mine failed at 160K miles. Fixing or replacing the transmission would have been more than the car was worth. A buddy got a Honda hybrid of the same year with manual transmission, and now has over 350K miles on it. On it's 2 nd clutch. As energy storage systems improve, cars become lighter, etc, the electric vehicles will eventually replace most passenger vehicles. Whether they use just batteries charged by grid power or some onboard generation system remains to be seen. Heck, I remember hearing farmers argue about whether diesel engines will replace gas engines for agricultural machinery. I don't know if any farm tractors are made with gas engines today. And yes, I have seen an electric farm tractor. A John Deere converted to electric. But the owner used a golf cart motor and 6 marine batteries. He can ride it around and perhaps plow his garden with it. And then back to the extension cord.

[Pat Barry]

The "but I need to drive 300 miles!" crowd is missing the bigger picture.

10 years from now, it's quite possible the car will be self-driving, and private car ownership will start to become uncommon. You need to go 500 miles? Pull up the app on your phone, schedule a trip - car A picks you up and takes you 300 miles (the range of its battery) then rendezvous with car B to finish the trip while it drives itself to a recharging station.

Thanks, but no thanks to that future!

[Pat Barry]

you can expect between 30 and 50 miles range depending on speed, temperature and terrain on electric. and another 300 miles on gas. the battery can be expected to have this range for the life of the car if history can be trusted. ours is a 2013 with 70k miles and has the same range as it did when new. the battery on the volt is heated/cooled while charging and the temperature is maintained while driving as well, it is the best battery temperature management system in the industry and this is why the batteries are keeping the manufactured capacity.

This may be ok for urban yuppies but not for 95% of America. Get it to 120 miles range and it might work for most of suburbia. Get it to 300 and I'll consider it.

[Carlos Alvarez]

Thanks, but no thanks to that future!

You're basing that on the concept that it will bring only limitations and issues without also bringing new opportunities, options, and services. We humans tend to look at something like this in the most negative way possible and assume that everything will be the same except for the one thing that sucks. I run into this with clients all the time; "We can't do X because Y has to be done this way." Well, why do you assume that when we replace X with something more productive, Y won't have a new solution?

People had all sorts of fear-based negativity on getting rid of horses and having cars instead. Well here we are.

[Chase Mueller]

Thanks, but no thanks to that future!

+1 here. I rather enjoy driving. So much so that when I purchased my new car last month, I made a point to get the 6speed manual option.

[Pat Barry]

You're basing that on the concept that it will bring only limitations and issues without also bringing new opportunities, options, and services. We humans tend to look at something like this in the most negative way possible and assume that everything will be the same except for the one thing that sucks. I run into this with clients all the time; "We can't do X because Y has to be done this way." Well, why do you assume that when we replace X with something more productive, Y won't have a new solution?

People had all sorts of fear-based negativity on getting rid of horses and having cars instead. Well here we are.

No, I'm basing that on the fact that i love to drive, enjoy the freedom to make in transit decisions about where to stop, which route to take, what to see, etc etv NOT to mention the total inconvenience of the concept that was presented. Its totally backward. It stifles freedom. Lets say i used your plan. My vehicle would disappear from my destination and then I'd need to schedule something. What happens in an emergency? Thanks but no thanks

[Adam Herman]

This may be ok for urban yuppies but not for 95% of America. Get it to 120 miles range and it might work for most of suburbia. Get it to 300 and I'll consider it.

you don't understand, there is a gas generator that will take you as many miles as you want. Actually they picked that range because 95% of Americans commutes are covered by it.

we have an acre outside of town with chickens and large dogs, and a pickup truck and a tractor. far from "urban yuppies"

[Carlos Alvarez]

No, I'm basing that on the fact that i love to drive, enjoy the freedom to make in transit decisions about where to stop, which route to take, what to see, etc etv NOT to mention the total inconvenience of the concept that was presented. Its totally backward. It stifles freedom. Lets say i used your plan. My vehicle would disappear from my destination and then I'd need to schedule something. What happens in an emergency? Thanks but no thanks

It's not my plan. I said you're considering one factor only, as if it will happen in a vacuum. You're presenting possible outside-case scenarios on the assumption that other solutions don't come to pass. They always do.

[Pat Barry]

you don't understand, there is a gas generator that will take you as many miles as you want. Actually they picked that range because 95% of Americans commutes are covered by it.

we have an acre outside of town with chickens and large dogs, and a pickup truck and a tractor. far from "urban yuppies"

I like the motor I have now. 5.3L V8 Chevy with 4 wheel drive and a tow package. I'm happy with that. Can I call you if I need a jumpstart sometime though??

[Mike Henderson]

This may be ok for urban yuppies but not for 95% of America. Get it to 120 miles range and it might work for most of suburbia. Get it to 300 and I'll consider it.

I guess it depends on how you define "95% of America". Your statement may be true in terms of land area, but land area doesn't buy automobiles. I doubt if 95% of the population is in what we might call urban and suburban areas, but I would not be surprised if 80% of the population lived in areas considered urban or suburban. And people buy cars. If you have a product that can appeal to 80% of the potential market, that's pretty good.

Mike

[Looks like I wan't too far off. See here. And that was of 2012.]

[Carlos Alvarez]

I guess it depends on how you define "95% of America". Your statement may be true in terms of land area, but land area doesn't buy automobiles. I doubt if 95% of the population is in what we might call urban and suburban areas, but I would not be surprised if 80% of the population lived in areas considered urban or suburban. And people buy cars. If you have a product that can appeal to 80% of the potential market, that's pretty good.

Mike

[Looks like I wan't too far off. See here. And that was of 2012.]

Yup, exactly. I live at the edge of the desert, 100 yards from the end of the city. And we seriously looked at various electric options since most of our driving would be covered. But we ended up with two "toy" cars instead simply because it's what we wanted (Jeep Rubicon and BMW Z4 35is). But the electrics would have covered 100% of what the BMW does and 80% of what the Jeep does.