Member
True but irrelevant. That isn't the subject of conversation. I don't approve of the government subsidizing any private company except where it involves national security. One bad policy does not justify the existence of another.
The subsidies of electric cars are small because not very many people want one even if the government pays for part of it.
Originally Posted by Dan Friedrichs
Contributor
I'm curious why you think that. Over 500,000 people have put down a deposit for Tesla model 3. That's one model from one manufacturer. And this is for a car that no one has even seen, yet! The day they started taking reservations, there was a line at my local mall that stretched through the entire mall and outside into the parking lot. People waited hours. People clearly want electric cars.
It seems like some people have the feeling that electric cars are somehow an affront to their way of life, and I just don't understand why...
Member
Yes, the Model 3 hysteria reminds me of the introduction of the Chrysler PT Cruiser in ~2000. The quantities are similar. I was in Toluca Mexico for the launch. There are many similarities between the two situations. At one time, production was backlogged by 6 months. People were paying several thousand dollars above MSRP to get one.
Unlike the Tesla, the Mexicans launched at near the design line rate. They increased capacity by 50% over in less than 6 months. Tesla is just now beginning to experience what it is like to compete with the mainstream companies with cars designed for the average customer. Results so far have not been promising. Their publicists are telling us that Tesla launch problems are common to the industry but it is a lie. I have been a part of maybe 25 new model launches and none of them even approached the (Tesla admitted) chaos at the Tesla plant.
I hope Tesla becomes the first company to design and market a good electric car that appeals to the masses. The Model 3 promises to be that but impulse demand doesn't prove that any more than the PT Cruiser backlog proved that it was a better car than the Neon from which it was derived. I am just waiting to see if it will survive the test of time. The PT didn't.
As I said before, the real appeal of electric cars won't be measured until the government stops paying people to by them.
Last edited by Art Mann; 04-01-2018 at 12:13 PM.
Contributor
Wonder what happened to the OP?
Rick Potter
DIY journeyman,
FWW wannabe.
AKA Village Idiot.
[OP]
Member
Sorry, I was making more popcorn.
I'm a value oriented buyer as I age (also called frugal). Since 1977 I've bought mostly new vehicles except for classics.
My current car is a 2006 Scion XB. My priorities were based on low cost to buy and operate and a high interior volume/MPG ratio. It's a great car with low miles that should keep meeting my needs for awhile.
I'm attracted to time proven designs and simplicity. Especially in higher expense things like cars. My experience with tool batteries has me questioning the actual battery life of EV's. A hybrid isn't simple and costs more than a high mpg economy car. I know I'm just an old closed minded frugal woodworker
For fun I pretend to shop around a little for vehicles to see if I'm missing out. So I guess I'm just kicking tires with this thread. Thanks for all the comments.
"Whether you think you can, or you think you can’t - you’re right."
- Henry Ford
Member
Jim, It has been a few years since I read about the Volt. So, things could have changed by now. I at first understood that they would charge the batteries while traveling down the road on engine power. I then read that that was not true, but that when the battery ran down it would then have to be plugged in to re-charge it. I remember being very disappointed at the time (not that I was in the market, just that engine re-charging seemed so sensible). Maybe I misunderstood???Personally, I prefer the hybrid model for more general driving, where you benefit from electric power economy for lower speed, stop and go travel and "unlimited" range when traveling. I really like the way the Volt is designed in that respect...it's all electric with a small gasoline engine that's essentially a generator to recharge while traveling longer distances. And many hybrids have extraordinary "get up and go" because of the torque advantages that electric motors have. The Hylander Hybrid Limited I owned prior to my present vehicle took off like a race car if I had to stomp on it...such as trying to get out of my own driveway with peek traffic streaming by without getting killed.
Contributor
It actually makes sense that the battery would not be recharged by the engine. You want to store cheap power in the battery, which you get from the electric power grid. If you used the engine to charge the battery, you would lose the "space" to put the power from the grid, and you'd use more expensive gas power to charge the battery and produce more pollution. On the Volt, if you don't have any power in the battery, the engine/generator provides motive power so you are never without motive power unless you run out of gas. When you get home, plug in and load up with cheap power.
Mike
[I'm glad that no one has advocated hydrogen powered cars. The only advantage to a hydrogen power car is maybe quicker "fill ups". But they're not very efficient when you look at the whole chain of hydrogen production, transport, and conversion to electricity to power a car.]
Last edited by Mike Henderson; 04-03-2018 at 3:49 PM.
Go into the world and do well. But more importantly, go into the world and do good.
Member
Couldn't you outfit a car with a solar panel and replenish the battery that way?
Member
I'll admit my knowledge on the subject is nowhere near advanced, but I'll assume it's one of those things that makes too much sense.
Epilog Fusion M2 40 Watt CO2 Laser
Member
Yes, but the power provided is quite low compared to the power needed to move the vehicle --- folks aren't willing to use on a day-to-day basis the sort of vehicle which can take advantage of that in a meaningful fashion:
https://phys.org/news/2011-07-solar-...-ultimate.html
Moderator
The Volt only uses the Gasoline engine as a generator when the battery gets low. It's a plug-in hybrid, but unlike many others, the gas engine doesn't provide motive power; just electricity. Scroll down on this page to read how it's setup: http://www.chevrolet.com/previous-ye...plug-in-hybrid
--
The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...
Contributor
The amount of space on the roof of a car is too small to provide much power. There are cars that have solar panels on the roof, but they only provide enough power to (for example) power a fan to try to keep the interior cooler when sitting in the sun. Way too small to provide any amount of power to the battery that is used to drive the car.
Mike
Go into the world and do well. But more importantly, go into the world and do good.
Member
Apparently residential demand for electricity is declining to such a point that some electric producers considering or are, subsidizing electric cars.
Battery technology will define our future more than any other technology I can think of.
Measure twice, cut three times, start over. Repeat as necessary.
Contributor
I don't know about residential demand declining, but one important thing that electric cars could provide is a smoothing out of the demand. Electric demand peaks during the day, fortunately during the time when solar generation is also peaking. But at night, demand declines substantially. This causes problems for the grid managers who have to take generators off line, or get them to decrease production. And modulating the amount of power produced by a big generation unit is not easy.
If electric cars are recharged at night, it will tend to smooth out the power consumption on the grid. That's why many utility companies offer cheap rates during the night to charge electric cars.
Mike
Go into the world and do well. But more importantly, go into the world and do good.
Guest
I worked out once what it would take to power a beach buggy (basically drive to the beach, park all day then drive home). It was marginal over about 5 miles and mostly impossible over about 10 (which required spending a fair bit of effort to lighten the vehicle). Panels are somewhat more efficient now (well.. some are) so I think you could get 10 miles. That was also in HI where the sun shines brightly all day. It was an amusing idea anyway.
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