easy honing guides?

[Brandon Hanley]

after screwing up the blade for my stanley #7 and spending the past day and a half trying to fix it im looking to replace my current honing guide.

the current one is one of the simple ones that 2 sides clamp together onto the blade over a wheel. im not sure if i should try another similar one or drop the cash for one of the veritas sets. im willing to spend money to make sharpening easier and less intimidating. i am intimidated by sharpening to the point i will use planes and chisels way past dull to try to avoid sharpening due to fear of making it worse.

so far im really considering dropping the cash for a veritas setup and a set of 8x3 diamond stones. i would really like suggestions though before throwing money at it.

[Phil Mueller]

Brandon, I was in your exact place about a year or so ago. Hated to sharpen for fear of making it worse. I purchased the Veritas guide system, and diamond stones. I didn’t get the diamond stones to solve any sharpening problems, only to eliminate the mess. I got the guide to help me keep a straight edge at whatever angle I wanted. Other users may have different experiences, but mine is that the guide is not a precision instrument. I would work an iron to a primary bevel of 25 degrees. The next time, set up to 25 again, and it would start to grind at a different angle...a degree or two at most, but often faced with regrinding the entire primary bevel. Could be my set up, but I’m just an average user who was careful about setting up the guide, and you may experience the same. Needless to say, it was frustrating, because I would go to do a “touch up” and ended up spending far more time working the bevel that I wanted to.

That eventually lead me to use it only for the micro bevel. And then it got to be too much to load the iron for a simple micro bevel touch up. So now, I don’t let things get too dull, and just freehand the micro bevel touch up. It doesn’t take too much learning to feel for the primary bevel, lift it slightly and pull back on the stone a few times.

I still use the guide when I need to change a primary bevel, grind down a chip, re-square the edge. But, I just wanted to point out that my experience with the guide is that it is not an automatic fix for everyday touch up sharpening. It’s great to get the initial primary bevel, then be done with it.

Bottom line, I suggest you get the guide for “fixing” big issues. It really does work well for that. Then practice putting on a micro bevel and keeping it sharp freehand. Took me a long time to get to this point, but it really takes the anxiety out of more frequent touch ups.

[Derek Cohen]

It sounds as though you have an Eclipse-clone. Before you run out and purchase another guide, describe what you do and the problem. The issue may be user error. If so, this could transfer to a new guide.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Hasin Haroon]

Brandon, I would like to echo Phil's comment - I went down the exact same path and now only use my Veritas MKII when regrinding or sharpening my shooting plane blade. Guides are too fussy otherwise - the eclipse-style is simple to use but requires some modifications to work well (there is a Lie Nielsen video on youtube describing the mods, I suggest you look for it) and is not the greatest in terms of repeatability. I have the MKII and it works well but takes time to set up (as does the Lie Nielsen, switching between jaws, though I don't have that one).

Also, I would restrict the diamond stone purchase to the coarser grits, as the fines aren't very fine and the grits also tend to break down over time. I find ceramic waterstones are the best cost/durability/resistance to dishing/speed compromise for regular sharpening.

[richard b miller]

brandon, i read a lot of pros and cons on which honing guide to use. seems that the old hats that do sharpening can use the cheaper model. i need all the help i can get, so i too bought the veritas mk.II. setup with the mk.II only takes me a few mins. i have not purchased any stones yet, but actually do my sharpening on a piece of plate glass and 1k,2k and 3k grit sand paper. i bought some THIN two way carpet tape and tape down the paper at top and bottom (about 3/4" strips). my paper is wet/dry and i go to town with it. ya might have to start with 600 or 800 to get the iron flat, but i can put a mirror finish on them! heres a video to watch on sharpening. http://www.finewoodworking.com/2018/02/13/get-new-handplane-ready-work?source=w1724enl&tp=i-H43-BC-7VV-N9Mbf-1o-NNpW-1c-N9WuO-1JYgcn&sourcekey=w1724enl&utm_campaign=fine-woodworking-eletter&utm_source=eletter&utm_medium=eletter&utm_ content=fw_eletter&cid=28861&mid=342087583

[Brandon Hanley]

It sounds as though you have an Eclipse-clone. Before you run out and purchase another guide, describe what you do and the problem. The issue may be user error. If so, this could transfer to a new guide.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Ive been going the sandpaper on glass route and no matter if i only use pull strokes across the paper or push and pull or even right or left handed the edge skews so one side is longer than the other. I use a jig to set the length/angle that was given to me with the guide by another member when i bought a few planes from him.

The main reason for wantung to switch from sandpaper is the mess and mass quanities needed. Ive spent 2 afternoons and about $20 eorth of sandpaper just regrinding this one iron and its still not done just shaped with 80 grit.

As for freehand, only in my wildest dreams. Ive tried for years with knives and finally gave in and learned to use cheaper pocket knives and replace often. I tried with a cheap chisel recently and that ended as i expected.

[Robert Cherry]

I use the Richard Kell honing guide. I like the stability of the outboard mounted wheels. It works well for me.

[Tom M King]

If it's not an original Eclipse, but rather one of the many clones, your problem has been well documented, as it's a common problem, and can be fixed by some filing to the jig. I'm sure someone can come up with the How-To link.

[Randy Heinemann]

Brandon, I've spent a lot on various guides and powered sharpening systems. I would recommend the Lie-Nielsen honing jig (with whatever accessory jaws you need to accommodate your chisels and blades. It is a side clamping jig which holds the chisels/blades securely and the result is a primary or micro-bevel which is square to the sides of the chisel every time. It requires that you make a setup guide to get the exposure of the blade from the jig correct for the specific angle you want to create, but that is a small one-time job.

I own the Veritas jig and found that the original top clamping jig allows the blade to move regardless of of how hard you tighten it down, which means that the micro-bevel may end up slightly out of square from the edges (probably not a big deal). The side clamping attachment is worth getting because it will work for your chisels and, because it is a side clamping jig, the chisel won't move at all once secured.

Having used both the Veritas and Lie-Nielsen jigs, I would go with the Lie-Nielsen jig over the other. It might be a bit more expensive but the results I get with it are superior to the Veritas jig overall.

[Derek Cohen]

Ive been going the sandpaper on glass route and no matter if i only use pull strokes across the paper or push and pull or even right or left handed the edge skews so one side is longer than the other. I use a jig to set the length/angle that was given to me with the guide by another member when i bought a few planes from him.

The main reason for wantung to switch from sandpaper is the mess and mass quanities needed. Ive spent 2 afternoons and about $20 eorth of sandpaper just regrinding this one iron and its still not done just shaped with 80 grit.

As for freehand, only in my wildest dreams. Ive tried for years with knives and finally gave in and learned to use cheaper pocket knives and replace often. I tried with a cheap chisel recently and that ended as i expected.

Hi Brandon, when you first opened this thread, you stated, "after screwing up the blade for my stanley #7 and spending the past day and a half trying to fix it im looking to replace my current honing guide. "

My question to you is how long have you been sharpening blades? It does not sound long as you appear unsure what is creating the problem.

A decent honing guide will be easier to use than a poor one, however even a good guide will not work if you are not using the appropriate methods.

The Eclipse-style guide you have is a reasonable one. Not the cause of your problems. Certainly change it, if this makes the task easier. In which case I would not go for a LN at this stage - it is too similar to the Eclipse in that both have a small wheel (I suspect that this is what is causing you difficulty when you pull the blade back over the sandpaper). The Veritas Mk II has two options, a flat- and a cambered wheel. I suggest that you get the one with the straight wheel for now. Add the cambered wheel accessory - or return to the Eclipse - later when you are more confident.

Sandpaper is variable in quality. At the least you should only use wet&dry, starting with 220/240 and ending with a minimum of 2000 grit. I dislike this system because it is wasteful and takes a lot of grits (I would roughly double up grits as you progress ... 220 - 400 - 600 - 1200 - 2000/2500). So the next step is a stone of some sort - waterstones or diamond stones. The usual recommendation is 1000/6000 to start. Add 8000 or 12000 later.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Kees Heiden]

To add to Dereks description, the Eclipse guide doesn't help the user with the skewing problem you have. It only holds the iron at the desired sharpening angle, the skewing is up to the user. It is not difficult though, just look at what you get occasionaly and correct when neccessary.

You do hold it with two fingers on the corners of the blade, do you? Now you can pressure a little harder on one side or the other. This is in fact an advantage of this guide over the LV one with the wide straight wheel: You can adjust the shape of the edge to what it needs to be. Most plane irons need a bit of cambering which can be accomplished with pressing down a bit harder on the left and the right corner for a few strokes after you established a straight edge.

[Tom M King]

Do a Google search for: tuning eclipse sharpening guide

You will find all sorts of information by other people that have had the same problem, and even a couple of youtube videos. One example: https://www.popularwoodworking.com/w...p-honing-guide

And a different search for: tune honing guide
brings up different, and even more articles, and videos, such as: http://www.finewoodworking.com/2016/...e-honing-guide

I don't know, for sure, that this is the problem, or if it's the solution for it, but worth a try.

[Brandon Hanley]

Derek
After wasting my last 2 days off with a 70hr work week in between i am ready to try something else. It may be user error, bad luck, broken/junk gadgets, supernatural forces. Either way im ready to move on and try something else. For the amount of hours this has set me back I would have made enough to buy both the veritas and Lie Nielsen guides and a set of diamond plates had I gone to work instead of sitting in my garage cursing at this guide and sandpaper

I admit it in the same post that you quoted yes I am unexperienced and intimidated by sharpening so it may very well be user error, but as much as I usually hate to blame gear for bad results.... I would put money on this guide being the issue. As I said it was a gift that came with some hand planes I purchased. The USPS beat the ever-loving crap out of that box enough in fact to break the body on a type 11 Stanley number 7 so the guide being damaged in some way isn't all that far-fetched. This is the only guide I have ever used or actually held in my hands but it seems to me that when clamping the blade in it shifts out of square as you tighten it between that and the wheel moving freely from side to side across a 3-inch Bolt I figure there should be an easier way out there to get a usable edge

I'm sorry this reply sounds angry I've Rewritten it a couple of times trying to take the edge out I am just headed to bed after a 14-hour shift so I'm running on fumes.

Kees yes I've tried using one finger on each corner I also tried moving both fingers to the corner that I needed more to come off of without any noticeable Improvement.

Tom
I will check that out when I get up even if it doesn't solve my problem maybe it will at least give me something to reference to see if my guide was just damaged in the mail thanks for the link.

[glenn bradley]

Hi Brandon, here's the link to the mods on an Eclipse style jig. I have that jig, the Veritas and the Kell. I have moved away from the Eclipse clone not because it is poor but, just because I have better to choose from. I have a bench grinder, a Worksharp 3000, a scary sharp setup and DMT diamond stones. I obviously use power sharpening but, also hand sharpen more often. All these things have their place.

If you want to get straight to a usable edge in no time flat the Worksharp 3k is hard to beat. I was born without the sharpening gene and this machine helped me get past that. I needed to remove the most error prone element in my methods and that was me. Once I built up some knowledge and confidence, other methods came more easily.

If the price tag and ongoing abrasive supplies turn you off, a Kell or a Veritas (or both depending on the range of cutters you have) and DMT diamond stones would be my next recommendation. I have no affiliation with DMT but, am still using a 600 grit plate that I have had for over a decade (along with others) and other products like Trend that I have tried have wore out and been discarded in record time.

Once a cutter geometry is in place, touching up takes just a few strokes. If you work something harder than you should, a couple of touches in the Worksharp and a quick micro bevel on an extra fine stone will put you back to work. If you forgo the power assist I suggest more frequent touch ups so that you can't get too far afield before giving things some attention. There are so many opinions, methods and myths about sharpening it is easy to get lost.

[Brandon Speaks]

I bought the veritas guide recently. I am more of a freehand sharpener in general and generally work a bevel by feel, but had some used tools where I wanted to establish the right primary to begin with. It works pretty slick so far and and I didnt notice any issue with angles being off when taking tools in and out. The wider wheel might make it easier to avoid skewing, although eclipse guides can also be used to do this effectively.

When looking at technique one think I have found important to orient your body so the natural range of motion is going straight so you are not "fighting yourself." To check this close your eyes when standing and move the blade back and forth naturally and then see if that line matches your stone. If it does not, adjust your orientation or your stones position. The feel will become natural very quickly but this can help to start.