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Thread: Shellac Question(s)

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stanley Covington View Post
    John

    Is the reason for using Everclear that it is less likely to cause allergic reactions because it does not contain the poisons added to denatured alcohol?

    Does Everclear have any negative impacts on performance when combined with shellac?

    Stan
    I switched over to grain alcohol and shellac flakes a few years ago. After reading about denatured alcohol on SMC I figured I’d give it a try. I find no difference at all in use. It is much more expensive then DNA of course but it lasts. Getting rid of the added poisons was good enough reason for me.

    You can’t buy grain alcohol in every state but surprisingly you can in CT. This is what I have now. I have used Everclear as well, I just base it on whatever is cheaper at the time.

    BFBD57F7-EB1C-466F-AA79-BA9A8CB3F7BF.jpg

  2. #17
    I am very sensitive to fumes. Some woodworking finishes make me vomit. There is a furniture factory near me; if I am driving toward the factory with the windows closed, I can smell the fumes 3/4 of a mile away. And bare wood that has been in a factory I can smell in my shop for weeks. I think shellac is a very good choice for your situation.

    Shellac flakes and pure alcohol is nice, but I think benefits would be lost on a beginner who was just doing little things. If you want to French polish a chest of drawers I might have a different idea, but I recommend buying an 8 ounce can of shellac and a quart of denatured alcohol. Shellac deteriorates in the can so you don't want a long term supply. You will want to dilute the shellac with at least the same amount of alcohol in a jar. I haven't used shellac straight from the can since I was a teenager. Keep another jar of alcohol for cleaning your brush.

    Unlike some other finishes, shellac does not need a certain temperature range. You can apply it in an unheated garage or shed when it is freezing or whatever, which would keep fumes out of the house. However, if you just put shellac on a tool handle in the basement, I don't think your wife would notice.

    For a sensitive person, I would avoid lacquers and varnishes and oil stains; try using water stains.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jebediah Eckert View Post
    I switched over to grain alcohol and shellac flakes a few years ago. After reading about denatured alcohol on SMC I figured I’d give it a try. I find no difference at all in use. It is much more expensive then DNA of course but it lasts. Getting rid of the added poisons was good enough reason for me.

    You can’t buy grain alcohol in every state but surprisingly you can in CT. This is what I have now. I have used Everclear as well, I just base it on whatever is cheaper at the time.

    BFBD57F7-EB1C-466F-AA79-BA9A8CB3F7BF.jpg
    Thanks, Jeb. Good to know. How about a good pinot noir....?

  4. #19
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    I am not as sensitive as Warren to fumes, but I've had enough exposure to solvents that I do my best to avoid. My favorite mix for shellac so far is pure (99%) Isopropyl alcohol.

    When I first started woodworking and using shellac I tried the box store denatured alcohol, awful stuff. Even with an organics respirator and gloves I ended up having a nasty headache and days worth of feeling ill. Never again.
    Bumbling forward into the unknown.

  5. #20
    This is all good information.

  6. #21
    Since these are tool handles, I'd like to suggest an alternative.
    I've used this on some plane knobs and totes and saw handles and I love the look and feel. (I think it was based on Jim K's suggestion.)
    Attached Images Attached Images

  7. #22
    Nathan, I had forgotten about Feed n Wax. It was recommended to me by Jim as well. That is another option to consider.

  8. #23
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    I've never used Feed n Wax, is it appropriate for tool handles? I wouldn't want something that left a tool handle slick or slippery.

    Dennis

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stanley Covington View Post
    On the other hand, the OP was talking about Zinsser Bullseye, which is ready to go out of the can or aerosol can. Not much point is adding alcohol of any variety to Zinsser.
    Excellent, more for the woodworker then!

    Seriously, my last post was a joke, implying that Everclear could lead to less-than-ideal results if some of it ended up in the user instead of the finish.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Chase View Post
    Excellent, more for the woodworker then!

    Seriously, my last post was a joke, implying that Everclear could lead to less-than-ideal results if some of it ended up in the user instead of the finish.
    Depends on what you consider ideal.
    Bumbling forward into the unknown.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Chase View Post
    Depends. Are we assuming that all of the everclear thats used in the process goes into the Shellac?

    Seriously, everclear is near-pure Ethanol while DNA is mostly Ethanol. The denaturants don't effect drying performance etc very much in my experience.
    The main problem with Everclear is the price. You are paying tax on that ethyl alcohol because it is "drinkable". And you are absolutely right about the hardware store "denatured alcohol". That is usually ethanol, with methanol and other additives to make it undrinkable - and free from tax. Those additives can be nasty and toxic.

    I've recently switched to using ethanol stove fuel that I buy from Amazon. It is relatively inexpensive and contains only ethanol (and a little bit of naturally occurring water) plus a "bitterant" to make the enthanol unpalatable - so it isn't taxable. No methanol. No toxins. Really good quality stuff - and cheaper than Everclear.

    ModaFlame Ethanol Fuel

  12. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Stanley Covington View Post
    John

    Is the reason for using Everclear that it is less likely to cause allergic reactions because it does not contain the poisons added to denatured alcohol?

    Does Everclear have any negative impacts on performance when combined with shellac?

    Stan
    Yes on point 1. DNA contains things that make it toxic and very bitter to drink... Those things may or may not hurt the shellac - but some people react to them pretty strongly as it evaporates.. The original and best solvent for Shellac is pure Ethanol...

    On point 2 - it depends on the proof.. You must get the 98% stuff for it to dry right in any useful amount of time. The lower proof stuff has more water in it... The more water - the exponentially longer it takes for shellac to harden... You can end up with "mushy" shellac when the solvent has too much water. Also - water in it can end up leaving a hazy finish... That's one reason everybody harps so much about fresh canned shellac and fresh solvent.... The older it is the more water it absorbes.. The worse the shellac dries.. The more likely it is to dry mushy.. Old shellac dry flakes are a different problem....

    I had one shellac finish that stayed mushy for the better part of a year.. I believe the issue was water contaminated solvent. It eventually dried out good and hard and has not been a problem since - but I had to be extremely careful about stuff printing it... And I still ended up not being careful enough and leaving several finger prints from picking it up to look at it...

    I have heard 99% Isopropyl also works - but it takes longer to dry than ethanol...

  13. #28
    I've bought denatured alcohol that had so much water it would not disolve the flakes. Just made a big gloppy mess. I like
    Behkol ,it always works and is a lot cheaper than bar alcohol .

  14. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by John C Cox View Post

    I have heard 99% Isopropyl also works - but it takes longer to dry than ethanol...
    This is accurate. In fact, the slower drying is an attractive feature of 99% Isopropanol for those of us that live in dry climates and want to slow down what seems like instantaneous drying when using DNA on a warm low relative humidity day. Slowing down the dry time allows the shellac to flow out and fuse much better. In addition to Isopropyl Alcohol, some finishers even add wetting solutions like the one Homestead Finishing sells to further retard the quick dry.
    I use Isopropyl exclusively as my shellac solvent for these reasons.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stanley Covington View Post
    I assumed the idea was to combine it with shellac flakes to make liquid shellac.

    On the other hand, the OP was talking about Zinsser Bullseye, which is ready to go out of the can or aerosol can. Not much point is adding alcohol of any variety to Zinsser.
    In response to Stan's comment there are certainly times I will add it to canned Zinsser when I want to thin the cut for padding or spraying shellac. I tend to favor multiple thinner coats, so usually I am cutting to approx 1lb or even 1/2lb cut whereas it comes out of the can at 2lb for Zinsser Sealcoat and 3lb for Zinsser Bull's Eye.
    Edwin
    Last edited by Edwin Santos; 03-21-2018 at 3:09 PM.

  15. #30
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    The solvent in shellac is Isopropyl or Denatured alcohol. The MSDS for both reads: "Vapor harmful. May cause dizziness, headache, watering of eyes, irritation of respiratory tract, irritation to the eyes, drowsiness, nausea, other central nervous system effects, spotted vision, dilation of pupils, and convulsions." So you are wise to be concerned.

    You can safely apply shellac outside in freezing temperatures, it will just take longer to dry. Instead of drying in a few minutes, it may take a few hours in cold temperatures. To be safe wait a day or two after application before bringing finished parts inside.

    My wife is also super sensitive to odors, so when I started doing the finishing for the trim in our Home office that we are remodeling, I tried wiping on MinWax Fast Drying Poly in our unheated green house. The air temperature never got above 40 on a couple of days and sometimes went down to 10 degrees (F) over night. I found that the poly would take 24 hours to dry to a tacky state where I could apply another coat. I applied at least 3 coats on all the base molding, door and window casing and let the pieces set for an additional 2-3 days before bringing it inside. LOML had no complaints of fumes.
    Last edited by Lee Schierer; 03-21-2018 at 2:55 PM.
    Lee Schierer
    USNA '71
    Go Navy!

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