Shellac Question(s)

[Mike Baker 2]

This relates specifically to the Zinsser Shellac here.

https://www.lowes.com/pd/Zinsser-Bul...hellac/3434544

I would like to use this on some chisel and saw handles, but I have a problem.
My wife has Cerebral Palsy, and subject to siezures. One of the things that triggers them are very strong odors, specifically things like finishes, oils, etc.
For those of you who have used this product, how intense is the smell, and how long for it to cure and stop giving off odor?
I could finish with it and leave it outside in the shed, but it is cold here at night (mid 20s)and I would rather bring them inside.
Right now I finish with wipe on poly, which if I do that early enough to let it sit outside 4 or 5 hours, cures well enough that I can bring it in. But my wife's nose is super sensitive, and even behind a closed door, if the scent is fairly strong, she will have issues.
Any advice/experiences would be appreciated.

[Patrick Chase]

This relates specifically to the Zinsser Shellac here.

https://www.lowes.com/pd/Zinsser-Bul...hellac/3434544

I would like to use this on some chisel and saw handles, but I have a problem.
My wife has Cerebral Palsy, and subject to siezures. One of the things that triggers them are very strong odors, specifically things like finishes, oils, etc.
For those of you who have used this product, how intense is the smell, and how long for it to cure and stop giving off odor?
I could finish with it and leave it outside in the shed, but it is cold here at night (mid 20s)and I would rather bring them inside.
Right now I finish with wipe on poly, which if I do that early enough to let it sit outside 4 or 5 hours, cures well enough that I can bring it in. But my wife's nose is super sensitive, and even behind a closed door, if the scent is fairly strong, she will have issues.
Any advice/experiences would be appreciated.

Shellac is alcohol-based, so the fumes are relatively harmless and dissipate quickly (certainly within a day). True poly varnishes (as opposed to the water-based mostly-acrylic stuff that says "poly") are oil-based. The solvents in there consist of mineral spirits and lighter petroleum distillates. Most of them flash off within hours, but there's a "long tail" of odor that lasts until the finish cures, which usually takes a week or so.

[Phil Mueller]

Mike, as Patrick said, it’s alcohol based, so it dries very quickly...within minutes of applying it. Many will dilute the store bought shellac with about 50% more DNA to aid in application. The more alcohol in the mix, the faster the dry time. Usually you can do subsequent coats of diluted shellac every 15-20 minutes or less. Of course that also may mean more coats are needed. Shellac has a distinct smell, but I apply it in my basement all the time and don’t get any complaints...especially on smaller projects like handles.

It’s hard to know what may trigger a reaction, but of all the finishes, shellac is certainly (in my opinion) the least offensive and quickest to dissipate. However, if she is sensitive to the smell of DNA, it may be an issue.

[John C Cox]

Denatured alcohol typically has a whole host of nasties in it that could potentially set her off if you do this indoors... Methanol, benzenes, formaldehyde stuff...

If you really want to try this out... Dissolve Shellac flakes into the super high proof Everclear... The 98% stuff or whatever it is...

Spirit based Violin varnish is a very similar finish.. It's a mixture of some gums, resins, and shellac that you mix into alcohol...

Another possible solution is home brew Boiled linseed oil beeswax finish. You cook some flax seed oil and then mix in some beeswax. No additional thinners or additives... Several videos on The tube about making it... Rub it in good with your fingers then wipe off the excess... It will need some UV to cure out... But you wipe it on real thin.. It smells like vegetable oil... And it feels really good in hand...

[David Bassett]

This relates specifically to the Zinsser Shellac here. ...

I can't speak to how the denaturing additives might affect your wife.

If you want to minimize the variables, you could try dissolving flakes in drinkable alcohol (ethanol). You'll pay excise tax, but it will be very controlled and should control the exposure. Allan Speers was experimenting with this, due to health concerns with repeated exposure to the denaturing chemicals. I don't remember his being around recently, but he has a thread on Sourcing Ethanol here.

PS- shellac itself is pretty benign, e.g. it's used as a pill coating.

[Patrick Chase]

PS- shellac itself is pretty benign, e.g. it's used as a pill coating.

Basically all modern coatings (since lead ceased to be used as a drier) are nontoxic when dried and cured. The health hazards arise almost exclusively during application and drying, when various solvents flash off or otherwise enter the air. Shellac is no exception, though more benign than most. I use high-purity ethanol as you suggest, such that the only real hazard is that of self-immolation during spraying.

[Edwin Santos]

Denatured alcohol typically has a whole host of nasties in it that could potentially set her off if you do this indoors... Methanol, benzenes, formaldehyde stuff...

If you really want to try this out... Dissolve Shellac flakes into the super high proof Everclear... The 98% stuff or whatever it is...

Or you can use 99% Isopropyl Alcohol (Rubbing Alcohol) as your solvent for the shellac flakes if you go that route. You should be able to find it online or maybe at a drugstore. Make sure it's 99%. Other than a water based finish, I think shellac is your best bet for your particular problem, and if applying thin coats, in a dry climate, the smell should dissipate within an hour or two. That's even using the premixed variety like you're suggesting.
Edwin

[Doug Hepler]

Mike, when the shellac solvent has evaporated, it's gone. Period. No need to worry about what it was composed of. Dry shellac is almost odorless. I don't think shellac makes an ideal finish for tool handles. Consider leaving them unfinished. Some people remove the factory finish on chisel handles, etc. Or you could use a two part slow set epoxy like West system or max clr. They are odorless and almost inert after they cure

Doug

[sean contenti]

I've heard a couple toolmakers that use Shellawax (Vesper, in particular, has mentioned it IIRC) - if you're turning new handles, or have a buffing wheel to toss on a grinder, it might give added durability above classic shellac.

Never used it myself, so I have no idea how the offgassing might be compared to others, but I've been quite curious about it for a while.

[David Bassett]

... if you're turning new handles, ....

If you're turning, I recall Richard Raffan using just beeswax as a friction polish on the lathe for tool handles.

[Stanley Covington]

Denatured alcohol typically has a whole host of nasties in it that could potentially set her off if you do this indoors... Methanol, benzenes, formaldehyde stuff...

If you really want to try this out... Dissolve Shellac flakes into the super high proof Everclear... The 98% stuff or whatever it is...

Spirit based Violin varnish is a very similar finish.. It's a mixture of some gums, resins, and shellac that you mix into alcohol...

Another possible solution is home brew Boiled linseed oil beeswax finish. You cook some flax seed oil and then mix in some beeswax. No additional thinners or additives... Several videos on The tube about making it... Rub it in good with your fingers then wipe off the excess... It will need some UV to cure out... But you wipe it on real thin.. It smells like vegetable oil... And it feels really good in hand...

John

Is the reason for using Everclear that it is less likely to cause allergic reactions because it does not contain the poisons added to denatured alcohol?

Does Everclear have any negative impacts on performance when combined with shellac?

Stan

[Patrick Chase]

Does Everclear have any negative impacts on performance when combined with shellac?

Depends. Are we assuming that all of the everclear thats used in the process goes into the Shellac?

Seriously, everclear is near-pure Ethanol while DNA is mostly Ethanol. The denaturants don't effect drying performance etc very much in my experience.

[Stanley Covington]

Depends. Are we assuming that all of the everclear thats used in the process goes into the Shellac?

I assumed the idea was to combine it with shellac flakes to make liquid shellac.

On the other hand, the OP was talking about Zinsser Bullseye, which is ready to go out of the can or aerosol can. Not much point is adding alcohol of any variety to Zinsser.

[glenn bradley]

The product in the link has a main title that says water-based but, nothing else reflects that. Were you after a water based product? I purposely use Minwax Polycrylic when I want a super clear finish that doesn't yellow. It still has an odor so I guess we are down to a matter of odor strength and duration. Alcohol based shellac flashes off and loses its odor pretty quickly. Your cold weather presents a challenge in venting the fumes outside but, I'd take a loss of heat over a health issue. If venting the odor is the direction you go I would stay with shellac due to the short interval of evaporation. Just my .02 and a guess from pretty far away ;-)

[Mike Baker 2]

Thanks, gentlemen.
Glenn, not particularly looking for waterbased. My motivation in using shellac is that it is a traditional finish used a lot in woodworking, and one I have not really used.
I considered BLO, but I have used it before, and know the smell it puts off. Also, I don't like the need to dry out or store the rags used, ie; combustibility, etc.
I still may chuck it all and go back to wipe on poly, but I will have to find a way to tint it a bit. I have some amber tint around here somewhere.