Thank you everyone for the insite. My boss was able to get in touch with the Hofman distributor today. We got some off the cuff pricing being he was boarding a plane as he answered the call.
I’m pretty sold on the Hofman 20” jointer. Only problem is fitting the machine In our freight elevator as we are on the third floor of a old mill building.
I can get a 20” machine in on the diagonal up to 128”. That would allow me to go with the 20” Hofman with the 150mm infeed and outfeed table. Sadly the extended 2000mm infeed table and standard 1500mm outfeed table will not fit.
That being said I’m leaning hard towards the Martin with the extended length infeed table at 78” and the standard 42” outfeed table.
I would love nothing more than either machine with the extended infeed and outfeed tables but I just can’t make it work.
My choice towards the Martin is based on feeling the longer infeed table will ultimately be of the most use to me.
Who knows though I could very well just end up with the 20: Hofman with 1500mm infeed and outfeed tables.
Anywho, if anyone else has any thoughts on the subject please feel free to share.
I suppose but man I’m not gonna wanna be screwing around with brand new machine like that. I’m not taking a table off then having to get it setup right again.
Now if I was willing to do this I would be going for the 24” machine with optioned with both a 2000mm infeed and outfeed table.
Completely overkill but I would at least know I would never have a reason or ‘want’ to buy another jointer.
Would you mind sharing the costs, or at least the differential between the two?
I'm guessing that to get the tables off and back on that its a couple hour job. I would buy the larger machine, and negotiate them getting it into your space and setup cutting properly- you're only gonna get the chance at this once, get exactly what you want.
Personally I do not like dissimilar length tables. Whatever infeeds, has to be supported by the outfeed, if not, you are pushing down unnecessarily to balance, and that isn't good.
I have auxiliary tables on my American jointer. They are set to dead flat at 1/8" cut, and I have about 7 1/2-8' of in and outfeed.
Makes all the difference for us, as we frequently run 14-16' long stock.
Martin uses shorter length tables with a bolt on adder to get the longer length. Not my favorite approach, but if accurately machined, there will be no working difference.
Last edited by peter gagliardi; 03-20-2018 at 9:43 PM.
You are just around the corner from me. I’m in natick but the shop is in stow. I was told by the Martin rep you also have a t26. I almost purchased a lightly used one a month or so ago. I got cold feet being it was a 2000 and the posability of the dual control going.
I tried to pm you but could not figure out how. For whatever reason I think I must have messed with some settings. The site layout appears different to me And I can’t for the life of me figure out how to send a pm.
I suppose to some degree you are right with the table removal. I guess I just consider doing such a potential disaster. For instance we may have to move our shop in the next number of months as the building is being sold. If so I can’t help but wonder what it’s gonna cost me to have the machine setup again if I have to take it apart to make this move.
The pricing was just on the fly and not definitive form Limz. Definitive pricing is coming, the pricing was based on fully manual machines with the suvamatic guard configured as in stock currently in USA..
I think there was or is a 16” machine with 1500 mm infeed and outfeed tables for like 16-17k. Then a 20’” machine with the extended infeed table for like 23k. Compare this to a t54 with souvamatic, extended infeed, plug for power feeder delivered for $25500..
To your point on matching infeed and outfeed tables. I have the Aigner extension tables, I use them on my Felder machine in my personal home shop. Setup is important but quick for the most part. I use a 10’ Stabilia R beam level and have had great luck jointing heavy long boards. 12/4x6-8”x16’ pretty much no problem. Hardest part is moving the piece form the outfeed table back to the infeed table. Tiring but the results are near perfect over the whole length without even trying. Satisfying work, I must have a sickness.
I really wish I trusted myself or had the hands on experience to take these machines apart and put them back together. It never seems like a good time to learn when you need said machine to make a weeks pay.
Last edited by Patrick Walsh; 03-20-2018 at 10:31 PM.
ive jointed 14-16 foot 8' wide stock several times on the SCM combo. I checked MM which I dont use and each table is 850 mm plus the space between. I had support both sides.
I have a griggio 20" and just measured each table is 1270 mm plus the space between short by your dimensions however ill be spoiled and that much easier when I use it. Pretty much all your work is done on the outfeed table and at some point its enough so you are paying for more support.
The only thing I dont like about the multiple rollers they need to be close to perfectly parallel or boards will walk sideways. think last time I just had a stand with waxed melamine past the outfeed and it worked fine. It was only 4/4 pine so it was light but ive done 12 foot 2" hard maple in the same width as well certainly not as much fun.
I dont see an issue with tilting a machine in your freight elevator you could weld up a simple dolly with a hinge it and use a car scissor jack to tilt it. You are doing some long heavy lengths is that material staying that way? my 16 foot stuff stayed just about the full length with ends trimmed to length.
while on the getting material back do you think going back over the knives is negative or positive, I even wonder about a hand plane and dragging it back as well. I usually dont.
I would make a tilting dolly before id take a table off each one will have its own system. One combo I have I did take the tables off and no issues but they are always in movement anyway and a compromise compared to a fixed table jointer, certainly not as solid.
Last edited by Warren Lake; 03-20-2018 at 10:53 PM.
Got to this thread late due to business travel.
I used to have a catalog from Laguna Tools which had the Hoffman jointer and combo machines. Don't know if Laguna still imports these, but worth a try. Good luck.
Dave, fit and finish is just not there on the new SCM line from my observations. As a matter of fact, I have had the SCM people come right out and tell me that their fit and finish would probably never be the equivalent of the German makers.
Patrick, I have 2 T26 shapers. 1 is a duo-control, the other just basic DRO and motorised height and tilt. Pluses and minuses to both. This era of electronics has far fewer issues than the newer stuff. I didn't hesitate to buy the duo-control. It is an '06 that I bought last year with a total of only 53 running hours on the meter.
I will say, the 60's era T21 cast iron shaper I had was not as quick to swap operations, but it was a far,far smoother running machine than the newer composite framed Martins. And the new ones are pretty smooth.
Nothing beats cast iron for smooth running in my experience, despite claims otherwise. Of course bearings do come into play as well.
A cast iron oil bath ball bearing -ed machine will beat a grease bearing machine any day for smooth, and a babbitt bearing-ed machine beats oil bath ball bearings as well for smoothness, and longevity.
I am not too far away, I will pm you my info if you have any questions .
Even the Euro jointers are pretty simple machines- yes parallelogram, but simple to adjust. I would bet an old Oliver jointer would be harder to dial in than any of the new offerings.
I have special interest in this thread because i am probably the newest owner of a Martin T45 planer. So new in fact, my planer was just completed a few days ago and is waiting to be shipped to North Carolina.
My two cents:
The topic of new electronics in new machines has been discussed here numerous times. My thoughts are, in every manufacturing sector these days, modern machinery with all its electronics far outweigh older machines in terms of of efficiency and profits.
I just looked at the Hofmann planer (website) and it is VERY similar to the Martin. Both have motorized table height, both have electronic variable speed feed, and an electronic interface. In fact, both planers have many similar “options” to customize their utility to the customer’s requirements. I did not see a “Helical” head or the “Contour” option(s) for the Hofmann.
I couldnt find the wieght of the Hofmann. The Martin T45 weighs apx. 2700 lbs.
As far as diminishing build quality... I toured the Martin Factory exactly one year ago today and i stood in the exact place where their proprietary concrete is filled into their Heavy steel frames. A process that Martin has done for nearly 95 years.
Anything Martin does not manufacture in their factory gets outsourced to other companies within Germany.
My feeling is this... If its built in Germany, you are going to be very happy with your investment. Like Dave K. said.. “you’re probably splitting hairs between these two manufacturers. After my T60C slider purchase, i never even thought of looking at any other manufacturers.
One more thing, I have had two people who work for Martin tell me they think the best machine Martin builds is the T45.
There is no poured in the frame concrete in any of my 70s era Martin machines, just wonderful thick cast iron.
Of course my math could be off and the 70s are more than 95 years old.
It's not the starters, or inverters, or drives I worry about. It's the PLCs that control everything taking a dump in 10 years and the software is out of date, not supported, etc and then what?
Had too many nice pieces of equipment rendered useless because of out of date/obsolete plc's.
Last edited by Darcy Warner; 03-21-2018 at 5:10 PM.
Any idea how any of the high end companies are doing financially? Seems like martin had some issues years ago but I have no idea. Hofmann is family owned ( maybe Martin is too ) so no numbers would likely be available. Woodworking machinery is at best a flat business, and I know SCM depends on their CNC and other stuff to supplement their classical woodworking line. I wonder how long we will have choices on the high end.
Peter, I'm not a babbit guy so your comments are good to know. I have a T21 and the old bath precision bearings and mechanical drip system make for a last forever type machine. Dave
Stopped by the Hofmann booth today and looked over the jointer and combo J/P. Nice machines, I would say the jointer is right there with Martin. The fence slides easy and tilts one handed, similar to Martin’s system in some ways. I believe the tables can be longer with 2 meter infeed and outfeed optional. And wider width optional. The manual spring joint adjustment is easier to use than Martin’s. This one had electric raising and lowering of the infeed table similar to Martin’s.
Martin makes their own spiral insert head and Hofmann outsources theirs from Italy. I would go Tersa anyway.
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