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Thread: Pfeil steel

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warren West View Post
    This is supposedly an analysis of the carving tools. Can't speak to the methodology or resulting accuracy. You'll need Google translate for that link unless you can read it natively.

    https://www.tallamadera.com/articulo...elegir-gubia-4
    The composition numbers obviously came from XRF analysis (the giveaway is that Carbon isn't included in the measurement). Other than the Mn being a touch low it's basically O1.

    Mn is incorporated in steels to "neutralize" any Sulfur that may be present in the Iron, so it looks to me like an O1 variant that's been tweaked a little bit to take advantage of a low-sulfur iron feedstock, analogous to how Hitachi White is tweaked relative to most other HCS.

  2. #17
    It's really not a standard alloy of anything... Either a O1 with half the Mn or a W enhanced 1.2210..

    The thing is... Reputable cutting tool makers don't generally fool with their alloy much once they get their process sorted out and they are making good quality tools if they can help it... The exception is if an entire alloy stream completely dries up - say their main mill goes under... Then - they gotta go sort out supply with a new mill - and that means re-validating their entire process and product quality all over again.... Pfeil, Two Cherries, Ashley Iles, and even Stanley are small players in the steel alloy business... No doubt they work closely with 1 mill to produce what they specifically want...

  3. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by John C Cox View Post
    in all honesty - unless you want really fine side bevels - the new $15 Marples, Two Cherries, and Ashley Iles are great chisels at 1/3'or 2/3 the price..

    And if you do want fine side bevels - the Woodcraft Socket Chisel is a good choice at about the same price.
    I do admit that the fine side bevels are preferable; I have cheaper chisels for rough work. But thicker side bevels aren't a deal breaker. My one vintage 750 isn't that fine in that regard, either.
    I have a 6mm vintage Fulton, and 12mm Fulton and a 1/2" 750. I have not tried the Fultons yet, but I think they will probably do just as well as the 750 for what I wantthem for; finer work. That means I have the equivalent of 1/4 and 1/2. I would like a 3/4, as well as a 1/8 to round out the set.
    I have considered the Woodriver socket chisels; the steel is similar to what I'm used to, and they go down to 1/8. Not available until May 1st, according to their site, but I'm not in a hurry. I am still learning,and it will be a bit before I really need even the ones that I have.
    Thanks, everyone.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by John C Cox View Post
    It's really not a standard alloy of anything... Either a O1 with half the Mn or a W enhanced 1.2210..
    It's going to behave like O1, and that's consistent with what I see from my own Pfeil carving tools.

    In a steel like O1 Mn is mostly there to "encapsulate" Sulfur into MnS inclusions, so that it doesn't form an oxide along the grain boundaries. If the Sulfur content of the iron is significantly lower than the upper limit for O1 (<0.03%) then you can reduce the Mn content a bit without compromising its properties.

  5. #20
    For general bench work... Inexpensive chisels to tide you over... Try out one of the current production Marples blue chip chisels... I liked the first one I bought so much I got the 6 piece set. Mine hold up way way better than the Aldi chisels and sharpen reliably on about everything out there... Very nice dry feeling steel that sharpens easily. They run about $15 each individually and a lot less in the set.

    Thanks

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Baker 2 View Post
    I do admit that the fine side bevels are preferable; I have cheaper chisels for rough work. But thicker side bevels aren't a deal breaker. My one vintage 750 isn't that fine in that regard, either.
    I have a 6mm vintage Fulton, and 12mm Fulton and a 1/2" 750. I have not tried the Fultons yet, but I think they will probably do just as well as the 750 for what I wantthem for; finer work. That means I have the equivalent of 1/4 and 1/2. I would like a 3/4, as well as a 1/8 to round out the set.
    I have considered the Woodriver socket chisels; the steel is similar to what I'm used to, and they go down to 1/8. Not available until May 1st, according to their site, but I'm not in a hurry. I am still learning,and it will be a bit before I really need even the ones that I have.
    Thanks, everyone.

  6. #21
    A good source for Pfeil is chippingaway.com.

    I find they are consistently 10-20% cheaper than Woodcraft.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Engel View Post
    A good source for Pfeil is chippingaway.com.

    I find they are consistently 10-20% cheaper than Woodcraft.
    Thanks. They're having a sale on Pfeil right now, but I can't find the single bevel bench chisels Woodcraft carries, (not necessarily stocks, but that's a different grievance,) and are what some of the chisel discussion is about.

  8. #23
    I think Woodcraft is the "Official USA Distributor" of those bench chisels... Interesting that their more standard European pattern bench chisels basically dried up here in the USA when these new ones hit the market...

  9. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by John C Cox View Post
    For general bench work... Inexpensive chisels to tide you over... Try out one of the current production Marples blue chip chisels... I liked the first one I bought so much I got the 6 piece set. Mine hold up way way better than the Aldi chisels and sharpen reliably on about everything out there... Very nice dry feeling steel that sharpens easily. They run about $15 each individually and a lot less in the set.

    Thanks
    I guess I'm not the only one that thinks these are decent for lots of work. I have a couple of the current production run too and I think they are not bad. I think for awhile under Irwin they weren't very good but perhaps they got things in order and quietly improved them or we got lucky with picks. I don't mind the handles either. I can't say the same for the Aldi handles. I don't think the Stanley Sweethearts or Narex have much over them.

  10. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Warren West View Post
    I guess I'm not the only one that thinks these are decent for lots of work. I have a couple of the current production run too and I think they are not bad. I think for awhile under Irwin they weren't very good but perhaps they got things in order and quietly improved them or we got lucky with picks. I don't mind the handles either. I can't say the same for the Aldi handles. I don't think the Stanley Sweethearts or Narex have much over them.
    Nope. Your not alone. I have a set and like them fine.
    Of course, I have Aldi's too.
    "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."

    “If you want to know what a man's like, take a good look at how he treats his inferiors, not his equals.”

  11. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Warren West View Post
    I guess I'm not the only one that thinks these are decent for lots of work. I have a couple of the current production run too and I think they are not bad. I think for awhile under Irwin they weren't very good but perhaps they got things in order and quietly improved them or we got lucky with picks. I don't mind the handles either. I can't say the same for the Aldi handles. I don't think the Stanley Sweethearts or Narex have much over them.
    I have considered the Irwins, but I have an old Marples they are patterned after, and I gotta say, I don't care for the plastic handles, but that is not a deal breaker. I certainly do like the way the blade itself is designed, and the thinness of the side walls. The weight difference is. It is a heavier chisel. But they are still under consideration.
    As for the Aldis chisels, I much prefer their weight. The handles aren't anything a saw, scraper, file or rasp and new finish won't cure. At least you can alter them to better suit your preferences, which i plan to do.
    Last edited by Mike Baker 2; 03-20-2018 at 10:44 AM.

  12. #27
    Mike,

    Here's a side view pic of several different 1" chisels.
    The WoodCraft socket, Pfeil, and Ashley Iles all have reasonably thin and comparable side bevels. Of all of these - the AI is the lightest and has a very nice balance.


    Left to right:
    Stanley Fat Max standard length (UK)
    Ashley Iles
    Marples
    Two Cherries
    WoodCraft wood river socket
    Pfeil
    Aldi
    Woodcraft green handle 115CrV3

  13. #28
    Thanks. Those WC socket chisels are really looking more and more appealing. I think when they come in stock that will be my choice, although I'm not crazy about the bulbous look of the handle. What is the feel in the hand?

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Baker 2 View Post
    Thanks. Those WC socket chisels are really looking more and more appealing. I think when they come in stock that will be my choice, although I'm not crazy about the bulbous look of the handle. What is the feel in the hand?
    Website lists some sizes in stock now....

    They look interesting to me, but reading the description, "... Tempered ... to HRC58-63", is troubling. That doesn't seem to be very tightly controlled. (Plus, I don't really understand what 100 CR-V steel is, or is like.)

    I think I want someone to cough up the cash and do a thorough review before I jump. Get you to volunteer?

  15. #30
    I really like their feel for regular bench work. I don't have small hands, though... I am an extra-large glove wearer.... I don't feel like they are a large or clumsy/bulky handle.. YMMV.. It wouldn't be too hard to make a new handle if you thought they were too big though..

    Granted - I am doing mostly guitar duty stuff which is mostly like paring - not dovetailing boxes where I would be mostly chopping with a mallet.....

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