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Thread: End grain blow out on raised pannels

  1. #1
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    End grain blow out on raised pannels

    For some reason I keep getting a message saying I do not have permission to post pictures..login and try again. I am loged in.....I am a contributor......still working on it.

    I am tryng to finish up some raised pannels. I am using a Veritas skew rabbit plane, trying to make a 3/8” rabbit on the edges of the pannels so they will fit in the grooves, made on a router table. I sharpened the blade on the plane and tried to sharpen the wheel that makes a groove in front of the blade. I am still having issues with the grain seperating and lifting, particularly at the corners. Admittedly this is a compound corner. My Veritas skew block plane does not seem to help either.
    Last edited by Mike Holbrook; 03-17-2018 at 11:04 AM.

  2. #2
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    Something like this?
    end grain rebate.jpg
    Cross grain cut? (handsaw can deepen the spur's cuts on the end, to prevent "blowout") or..
    rebate planes.jpg
    Edge grain? I do end grain first, then the edge grain to clean out after the end grain cuts.

  3. #3
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    I don’t know a cure other than light cuts with a sharp blade. Maybe pare until you are close and finish with the plane.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Holbrook View Post
    For some reason I keep getting a message saying I do not have permission to post pictures..login and try again. I am loged in.....I am a contributor......still working on it.

    I am tryng to finish up some raised pannels. I am using a Veritas skew rabbit plane, trying to make a 3/8” rabbit on the edges of the pannels so they will fit in the grooves, made on a router table. I sharpened the blade on the plane and tried to sharpen the wheel that makes a groove in front of the blade. I am still having issues with the grain seperating and lifting, particularly at the corners. Admittedly this is a compound corner. My Veritas skew block plane does not seem to help either.
    Mike, just plane the raised panel without a rebate on that side.

    I place the rebate on one side ...



    Add an angled subfence ...



    Raise the panel on the other side. Then continue the taper until it fits the groove ...





    Link: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furnitu...ingapanel.html

    Regards from Perth

    Derek

  5. #5
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    Thanks for the tips Steven. I actually did the cuts with the grain first. I can see how doing it the other way would have been smarter.

    I have tried using a small Japanese, thin, flexible blade, saw to make corner plane lines with mixed results.

    I think I figured out I needed to change my depth of cut when going from with the grain to cross grain cuts. Cross grain is more difficult and demands a smallower cut with the little wheel cutting deeper in front of the blade, so it actually cuts through the end grain before the blade raises it up. Should have figured that out sooner. The grain in this SYP seems to be comparatively wide compared to what I am use to. It may be some fast growth rings that are just wider.

    Right Nicholas, I think I also adjusted my depth of cut thicker and started pushing harder, trying to finish up the long grain rabbits. Not thinking about how those adjustments would work on the end grain.

    Nice work Derek! I thought about adjusting the back sides of the pannels, but not until I had started on the face, viewable sides, dumb! I am actually roughing the edges out at the moment. It would look wierd to switch now, doing 8 pannles. I am planing to do final adjustments on the back, not viewed sides. Great tip!

    I hand planed the raised edges on my pannels, so they are not going to be exactly the same. Probably should have taken the time to make an angled fence, live & learn..! Hmm, I do have an adjustable Veritas fence for my Veritas planes....maybe I can set it up and clean the raised areas up.

    Great ideas!
    Last edited by Mike Holbrook; 03-17-2018 at 12:32 PM.

  6. #6
    One more suggestion if you have not done that: You engage the nicker (for cross cut grain), then start the plane by pulling it back at the far end a few times towards your body. You would want to score the cross grain fibre at the beginning.

    Simon

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Derek Cohen View Post
    Mike, just plane the raised panel without a rebate on that side.

    I place the rebate on one side ...




    Raise the panel on the other side. Then continue the taper until it fits the groove ...




    Regards from Perth

    Derek
    That's a clever maneuver!

    Simon

  8. #8
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    You've already received many good ideas that will probably solve the problem. One little detail I've learned through trying to do cross grain rabbets is to not only have the spur cut the surface grain, but then follow that with a knife to cut the cross grain on the edge of the board, to the depth of the rabbet. That really has help to keep the cut from blowing out at the end.

  9. #9
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    Great thread, thanks to all the posters for the great ideas!

    I have discovered a thing or two about using the Veritas Skew Rabbet plane. Set up for this plane has proven to be a little more difficult for this user. I could not figure out why my fence was habitually not up against my work piece. I discovered that if the blade is not at or slightly in front of the pre cut wheel then the rabbet the plane cuts is not as wide as you think you have the plane set for. The depth the wheel is set to cut is also more important than I initially realized. I am now setting the wheel deeper than I initially thought was necessary.

    Another issue I had is this Skew plane is designed to work from one direction only. I had some problems flipping boards and discovering that the blade was raising the grain in some places. I am now using a Veritas Custom Smoothing plane and a Veritas Skew Block plane in concert with the Rabbet plane. The Block Plane’s wheel is set extra deep for scoring the far side of the corners. The Block plane is also bevel up vs the bevel down Skew Rabbet, making the Block plane a little better on end grain. I have the Smooth plane set up for a shallow cut so I can clean up the rabbets the Skew Rabbet makes without having to constantly readjust the depth of cut. It also comes in handy for relieving edges, so things fit better. The Skew Rabbet’s & Block planes cap irons do not adjust as close to the blade as the Smooth planes. The mouth on the Rabbet Plane is not adjustable which can limit the quality of cut. It takes a medium to heavy cut easily, setting it for a light cut can be a challenge, YMMV.

    More planes, can we have too many? I am dealing with this issue by using standard Smooth and Block planes to assist my Rabbet plane.
    Last edited by Mike Holbrook; 03-18-2018 at 12:30 PM.

  10. #10
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    Find a good #78...
    Ward's 78.jpg
    With the grain = retract the spur ( the spur will follow the grain..)
    I drag the plane backwards about 4-6 times when going cross grain, before any cuts are made.
    You can take the depth stop off, lay the plane flat on the milled side and use it like a shoulder plane.

    Across the grain = use the spur. make sure the side of the iron projects just a hair beyond the side of the plane.
    rebate work.jpg
    That shaving is three feet long, and I could see through it...
    plywood rebate.jpg
    Nice and clean.

  11. #11
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    Adjusting the pre cut wheel on the Veritas Skew Rabbet can be a PITA. Hint, do not try to adjust that wheel with magnetic screw drivers. The wheel rides on an axel. The axel slides in & out and has to be turned to an exact position to adjust the cutting depth. The wheel does not fit on the axel tight so it is hard to tell where it will end up after it is tightened. Getting both adjustments correct without any real reference can be a challenge.

    In regard to adjusting the blade, there is no side to side adjustment. Side to side adjustment is crucial in my experience with this plane. If the position of the blade and wheel are not fairly exactly aligned the size of the rabbet changes, which is a real problem for a Rabbet plane. The in & out blade adjustment is controlled by a tab on a wheel that has to be alligned with the blade, then engaged. One has to do this while trying to hold the cap iron in position to tighten the lock down screw, easier said than done. Once the depth adjustment is moved the entire mechanism goes haywire if the tension on the cap iron screw is not exactly correct, again easier to say than to do. For one off jobs this may not be an issue as these adjustments are only made once. Working 8 raised pannels with cross & long grain (requiring depth & wheel adjustments), needing to resharpen both the plane blade and the little wheel, the adjusting of this plane can be tedious. I am having substantial issues eliminating chatter along the plane blade. The tedious adjustments make it hard to dial out the chatter.
    Last edited by Mike Holbrook; 03-18-2018 at 4:26 PM.

  12. #12
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    With any luck, by this time tomorrow evening, I will be raising a panel..in Pine. IF any thing will "blow out" pine will....will post the results when done. Unless someone wants a "step by step" on how I mine....

  13. #13
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    I am heading back to the “cabin”, new home this PM. I plan to finish my 8 raised pannels for the four shutters I am making Steve. I may follow Derek’s method and make an angled fence or two for my planes. I actually have a Veritas adjustable fence that fits Veritas Custom planes, which I believe will fit my Veritas Skew Rabbet plane as well. I made my joints without a guide. The adjustable fence may allow me to set it for one angle, so they will all be the same. Any suggestions about how to do this are appreciated.

    I will reread Derek’s site regarding his methods. I just don’t think it mentions the angles for raising pannels. My other issue is I have rabbets on both sides of my raised pannels, as I had started on the fronts before I read Derek’s suggestions....I think Derek angles his rabbets, so I started angling the rabbets on both sides of my pannels, hoping it would make them stronger.

  14. #14
    Mike, my rebates (rabbets) are square, not tapered.

    Regards from Perth

    Derek

  15. #15
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    Square to the edges..
    IMG_3688 (640x480).jpg
    One can also use a combo plane for this, IF you want to mess around with the spurs..
    test fit.jpg
    Slight blow out..not a biggie, as the edge grain cut will erase it...

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