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Thread: You guys spend too much time with "shop improvement"

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
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    Itapevi, SP - Brazil
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    672

    Question You guys spend too much time with "shop improvement"

    It is for amateur woodworkers only.

    Recently my wife made an interesting observation.

    It wasn't directly aimed to me (indirectly, perhaps): "You guys (amateur woodworkers) spend much more time making stuff for your shop than useful things (she means furniture and any home improvement stuff)"...

    Perhaps she is right as I have saw in the Internet muuuuch more of shop improvement projects from amateur woodworkers than actual furniture (or any other home improvement) projects. Lots of jigs. Lots of tool improvement. Lots of techniques to use our precious tools... but not so much "real" projects.

    How much time do you use for your shop comparing with "useful" output? I am curious...

    Personally I have an history around 80% ("useful") / 20% for the shop... but in the last couple of years, at most 50%/50%... perhaps 40%/60%...

    Thanks in advance for your input!
    Last edited by Osvaldo Cristo; 03-16-2018 at 4:18 PM. Reason: ...as usual, typo!

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Location
    Prairie Village, KS
    Posts
    397
    I am fairly new to woodworking, just since Jan of last year, so I have spent a ton of time on shop projects. I am also extremely finicky and want to have the right tools, jigs, fixtures, etc. I just so happen to love shop projects though so I get as much enjoyment working on the shop as I do building non shop projects.

  3. #3
    Not coming from a hobby perspective but when I was at a more hobby level looking back I can appreciate the learning that came with making jigs, fixtures, shop cabinetry, and so on. Its a way to hone your skills when your not doing it every day. Kinda like you make your mistakes on your own work.

    You cant expect someone who has a passion for woodworking at a hobby level to be able to be dead productive at 100% the instant they walk in the shop to the instant they leave. We in business spend 50-60 hour a week non stop trying to sharpen those skills. When your walking into your shop for an hour a day and a few on the weekend (or far less than that) your going to stretch out the learning curve by a mile.

    Dunno, for me, if it were a hobby, I would want to just go in my shop and "be". Maybe walk around, look at things, putter with this or that. It would be release from my day job or my retirement bonus from working for 40+ years. I wouldnt be expecting production.

    I know several hobby shops that look like Nascar showrooms and I have never understood that type of shop. But if its what floats your boat, and your happy, screw what anyone else thinks about your productivity level.

    I dream of having the time (and money) to really get the shop in the condition I want it. But work always takes precedent.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    In the foothills of the Sandia Mountains
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    Guilty as charged. Probably 80% of things I have made have been for others. Shop projects are just for me and I only have to please myself.
    Please help support the Creek.


    "It's paradoxical that the idea of living a long life appeals to everyone, but the idea of getting old doesn't appeal to anyone."
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  5. #5
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    El Dorado Hills, CA
    Posts
    1,311
    I sometimes go down to the shop just to unwind at the end of the day. It is enjoyable if I am making furniture or fixing up the shop. I spent a lot more time initially to get my shop set up the way I like it, but the ratio of "useful" vs "shop" activity increases over time.
    Steve

  6. #6
    It's just a different part of the hobby. Some car guys rally race, their cars are always banned up and broken. Some car guys build show cars, they're 700 hp hemi will never actually move the car.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Deep South
    Posts
    3,970
    I take it by spells. Right now, I am in the process of building a house and much of the cabinetry and shelving is being done by me. Therefore, I am spending a lot of time on project work - 6 or 8 hours a day some days. After the house and shop are complete and I move my equipment in, I will probably spend several weeks tuning equipment and doing shop projects. In particular, I am going to install a whole new central dust collection system. After that, I plan to return to doing CNC carving work because it is fun and sometimes pays well.

  8. #8
    In my case, your wife is right. It goes in phases, but sometimes as much as 50% of my shop time is spent finding ways to improve my shop or my tools - that includes tool making. But I only do this as a hobby and it gives me pleasure to use a well organized, function workspace.

    Aside: For ME, woodworking is a combination of several things
    * Making nice furniture and small projects
    * Learning new techniques and coming up with new techniques (I simply enjoy learning)
    * Trying new tools (costly, addictive)
    * Making my shop work better for me (effective storage, solid benches, etc)
    But again, I do it for entertainment. Not to make a living. YMMV.

    Fred
    "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."

    “If you want to know what a man's like, take a good look at how he treats his inferiors, not his equals.”

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Osvaldo Cristo View Post
    It is for amateur woodworkers only.

    R
    How much time do you use for your shop comparing with "useful" output? I am curious...

    Personally I have an history around 80% ("useful") / 20% for the shop... but in the last couple of years, at most 50%/50%... perhaps 40%/60%...

    Thanks in advance for your input!
    Shopnotes existed for a good reason...but also folded for a good reason (how many shop solutions have not been covered by the magazine after all the reruns?).

    At my current level of woodworking (decades after), I would say 90 to 95% non-shop related work. When I started, it might 30% shop-related. Unless I move to a new shop, it is unlikely I have many shop improvement projects to do.

    Simon

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Camas, Wa
    Posts
    3,853
    My wife calls it tinkering when I am not working on anything that she wants. She would probably tell you it is 90% tinkering and 10% useful. I would say it is the other way around.

  11. #11
    Osvaldo,

    I used to chide guys over on one of the amateur guitar building forums about this very subject... They would decide they wanted to build a guitar...

    So they start buying tools...
    And they start building jigs....
    And more tools....
    And more jigs...
    Then build a workbench.... And another one after that first one..
    Then rehabbing old tools....
    And buy some special Guitar wood...

    But what did they not do?

    Right - They never built a GUITAR...

    10 years later they have this spectacular collection of tools, jigs, fixtures, and beautiful wood... But have not actually built 1 guitar.... I realized I was headed into that trap after my 1st year - so I quit all that and just started building guitars on the kitchen table...

    The reality is that you can build some spectacular stuff with fairly straight forward equipment...

    Or you can collect tools, jigs, and fixtures... It's not wrong if it makes you happy.. There is nothing shameful about realizing you love collecting and rehabbing old tools better than you like using them..... Nothing wrong with realizing you love sharpening chisels to the point where CERN calls you when they need some atoms split... And you love holding them in your hand and feeling a 20,000 grit polished edge just glide through stuff.. Or finding and sharpening old saws.. Nothing wrong with that at all...

    Only you can decide your hobby....

    Quote Originally Posted by Osvaldo Cristo View Post
    It is for amateur woodworkers only.

    Recently my wife made an interesting observation.

    It wasn't directly aimed to me (indirectly, perhaps): "You guys (amateur woodworkers) spend much more time making stuff for your shop than useful things (she means furniture and any home improvement stuff)"...

    Perhaps she is right as I have saw in the Internet muuuuch more of shop improvement projects from amateur woodworkers than actual furniture (or any other home improvement) projects. Lots of jigs. Lots of tool improvement. Lots of techniques to use our precious tools... but not so much "real" projects.

    How much time do you use for your shop comparing with "useful" output? I am curious...

    Personally I have an history around 80% ("useful") / 20% for the shop... but in the last couple of years, at most 50%/50%... perhaps 40%/60%...

    Thanks in advance for your input!

  12. #12
    I've seen that, too. But we need those guys don't we?

    The shop can definitely consume a person and become the project, as any of us who have built or remodelled a shop know this. My shop is always in some degree of disarray and waiting for some little thing to be done.

    I spend time between projects doing things that make my shop more efficient. Sometimes I take a break when I'm in a design dilemma or a big time consuming project.

    I build jigs as I need them.

    But I can only do it so long and I have to get back to a furniture project.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Missouri
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    2,151
    Here's my story. I have a chest on the bench I started in the fall. We needed a new window in a bedroom at the same time. I installed that and finished up the trim on the outside. It was then to cold for me to work in the garage. I then installed a generator and transfer switch, mostly inside work. I repaired two chairs. I then started on the inside window trim. All of the sudden a plumbing leak under the kitchen sink. Turns out it was a poor installation, 2 90s just under the floor on the drain. Cut out and reworked to the basement floor. Now have to put on the dry Waller and painter hat. It's springtime and the garden needs to get ready, the mower tuned up, a chain saw to fix. Still no work on the chest. Sometimes I do wish I didn't know how to do all of this.
    Jim
    Last edited by Keith Outten; 03-17-2018 at 10:30 AM.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    SE PA - Central Bucks County
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    65,675
    I agree with those who mention it comes in phases. I'm very much in a shop improvement phase right now because I'm working to transform from pure hobby to more work for others as an alternative to going out and getting a part time job at a Super Market or cooking in a restaurant to add to my monthly earnings in retirement. I have a little more to do relative to that before a new machine arrives and at that point my "phase" will shift a bit to the learning curve and then to producing stuff. But there will still be personal projects in the mix for sure...
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Location
    Willard,Utah
    Posts
    163
    Great topic! Haha, I'm in the process of building my shop at home after 25+ years of doing it for a living, and the stress of having to finish a job for the client can get to you...so to be able to get into your own home/hobby shop is a welcome relief. I will still do occasional "useful" and profitable work, but to be able to go in and tinker and make the shop better will be my stress relief, mostly because im doing it because"I" want to, and not because I have to. So yes, I plan on being very non productive! Haha

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