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Thread: Cutting board fail at 3 months

  1. #31
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    Apr 2006
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Bolton View Post
    Joe and Glenn,
    my tool handle test. It was a test of glue line failure due to hard use and some would say gross neglect. None the less we have people "thinking" that TBIII is a bullet proof exterior glue. It is not.
    I hate TBIII. I use TB1 or Elmers yellow for furniture and I use epoxy for anything that will see moisture. Thanks for sharing your test.

  2. #32
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    Jan 2017
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    Marina del Rey, Ca
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    I use WEST epoxy.
    "Anything seems possible when you don't know what you're doing."

  3. #33
    Did the cutting board end up soaking in sink a while or place in dishwasher? Or....did the fabricator of the cutting board observe proper temperatures when doing the glue assembly? Either shop, lumber or glue could have been too cold....I noticed assembly was in December. Was this adhesive fresh and stored properly?

    While I'm not a fan of TightBond III, I'm thinking some other unfavorable condition(s) lead to premature failure of the joint. It seems several other joints in the picture provided by OP is not looking too good.

  4. #34
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
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    SE Michigan
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    3,222
    Regarding a few posts on care, I have a number of end grain cutting boards around the country with relatives and friends. None of them oil the things, let alone keep them dry. Whenever I happen to be visiting, I oil their boards. I have good friends who love to cook and when we’re invited over, I take the board home with me to recondition and return. When I see some of them after 6 months or a year, I’m amazed they haven’t blown apart. FYI, I used Titebond II, and to date, even with abuse, none have separated.

    I might add, that when I gifted the boards, I included a brief “how to care for” instruction sheet and a bottle of cutting board oil. Usually, the bottle hasn’t been touched

  5. #35
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    Sep 2006
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    Deep South
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    Well, I can't say that I have personally experienced the problem of too much clamping pressure. Its just that I have read a lot of accounts of failures that look like that and are attributed to too much clamping. I don't need to experiment. I will just take your word for it that it isn't true.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Bolton View Post
    For reference here is a great thread from another forum. If you read through the replies there are a few tests of glue line failure. One using 40,000lbs of clamping force and then splitting the joint the following day.

    http://www.woodweb.com/forum_fdse_fi...ng/807783.html

    There is no amount of clamping force that is too much with PVA, and I would say PU. Epoxy yes.

  6. #36
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
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    finally, I see there are others like me that don't like and don't trust TB III. I use their TB I without any failure and use west system for anything else that is critical and needs waterproofing.

  7. #37
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    Dec 2012
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    In reference to comments above I do agree that end grain boards can be produced with very desirable designs, but so also can those with edge grain as demonstrated by Glenn's board. However, from my practical perspective I'd sooner make boards with edge grain, not only because they are far less labor intensive, tend to draw in more moisture, and I feel they are more durable standing up against the cutting edge of knives.

    As for glue, I've not tried PU glue or epoxy for boards, actually I hadn't even considered PU glue. I've used TB III for just about everything, including boards, and have not experienced these failures.

    Here is an older, but informative article about PU glue https://www.popularwoodworking.com/a...yurethane_glue
    Last edited by Al Launier; 03-16-2018 at 12:21 PM.
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  8. #38
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    Nov 2008
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    Northern Oregon
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    To the OP. If you think you didn't apply enough glue, do a torture test and see for yourself. It can be fun.
    The guy I apprenticed under 48 years ago tested white glue in the shower for a long time with no failure. I believed him, but did my own test and and got more results.
    Now I'm a regular tester. My materials my glue my conditions and temperatures. I keep records of the results.

    Thank you Mark for posting your actual experiences.
    "Whether you think you can, or you think you can’t - you’re right."
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  9. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Al Launier View Post
    I'd sooner make boards with edge grain, not only because they are far less labor intensive, tend to draw in more moisture, and I feel they are more durable standing up against the cutting edge of knives.
    Thats interesting because the conventional thoughts behind end grain is the opposite. That end grain has the boards in a bundle of straws orientation with the straws standing up on end which allows a knife edge to penetrate but not sever the long fibers. Often times people feel end grain boards are somewhat self-healing.

    I too hardly ever make end grain boards or tops for the reason you mention. They are a monstrous amount of work and can be riddled with problems down the road if a board or two, or piece or two, dont behave well in the crowd.

    I have old long grain boards that clearly show knife marks that an end grain board would never show but I think the end grain board issue stems back to times when butchers and cooks were breaking down large animal parts, de-boning, and so on, with heavy cleavers and knives. That situation would not bode well for a long grain board. However in todays world the end grain boards seem to be more about beauty and aesthetics. They are definitely beautiful.

    I dont think I know anyone that even owns, much less uses, a heavy meat cleaver on a regular basis. A chefs knife is about the biggest thing that would likely come in contact with any board we've made. If someone asked for a butchering block I would go out i the woods and cut them a large white oak round. Square it up, and put some legs on it lol.

  10. #40
    A couple more pictures of the same board. There is separation on several of the glue lines, but there is also a piece of walnut that cracked *not* on the glue line. I'm perplexed! This is an ~8x8" board so making it thicker than 1.5" seems awkward.

    I'm making another one soon. Epoxy?
    Attached Images Attached Images

  11. #41
    Walnut is a pretty porous wood and in my experience will take a glue joint much better than many other woods. To me I wouldnt be surprised at all to see the Walnut fail past the glue line while the adjacent wood failed at the glue line.

    The end shot of your board looks like any heavily used long grain board we have ever made with TBIII. It looks literally like any TBIII glue line failure I have ever seen. Im not trying to bash TBIII, but as I said in my original post, I just dont think its as bullet proof as people want to think.

    Thankfully we live in the Walmart generation where people are just accustomed to things failing and falling apart and having to re-purchase. We go to a craft show every year where a guy has a booth with literally hundreds and hundreds of cutting boards that I can only assume are all made with TBIII. I doubt he ever gets a return or call back. They just get tossed, or given to the neighbor to rip and re-glue, etc..

  12. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Roger Marty View Post
    I'm making another one soon. Epoxy?
    Make two. One epoxy and one PU. And torture test the hell out of them. Its actually kind of fun and you gain direct knowledge as opposed to tradition, speculation, etc..

  13. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Bolton View Post
    Make two. One epoxy and one PU. And torture test the hell out of them. Its actually kind of fun and you gain direct knowledge as opposed to tradition, speculation, etc..
    OR.......just use the brown Gorilla Glue.....problem solved!!

  14. #44
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
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    Deep South
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    I have sold several custom inlaid cutting boards like the ones in the pictures below and I don't know of a single owner who has ever gotten one wet.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  15. #45
    No one has mentioned it, but maybe the joinery was just not good enough. If you are trying to fill gaps with glue, then you really won't get a good enough bond for something that will get wet.
    In the initial pic some of the unbroken glue lines don't look that great.

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