Looking for a Jig

[John Terefenko]

Not knowing where to put this I thought I would try here and if moderators need to move then that is OK.

I have a right tilt tablesaw and I am looking to make a sled to be able to cut staves accurately and repeatably They will probably be around 12" long. But they will be thin. Looking to probably make 6 to 8 staves per 1" diameter. So staves form a complete rod with a diameter of about 1" to 1-1/2" Would love to see others sleds if you have something like this. I do not want to have to set up a fence on the opposite side of the blade and keep moving it. With a sled I can make repeated cuts with maybe a stop block to set distance. Hope this makes sense. I can answer any questions if they come up. Thanks in advance.

[Peter Christensen]

Have you looked in the IAP Library in the Tools area at "This Jig Sucks...."? The principles could be made into a sled if you preferred but his ripping method works for blades that tilt left or right.

Happy Birthday John.

[Edwin Santos]

Hi,
How are the "staves" forming a rod (which implies round)? In other words six 12" long staves with 30 degree angled long edges would form a hexagon. I don't have an exact calculation but I'm thinking for the size range where you want to land, the width would be about 11/16". And the thickness of the stock could be no more than the radius of the outside point of the hexagon but this might be influenced by whether you need it hollow at some diameter inside, as in a tube. From there what would you be doing to shape the hexagon into a round? Is it the long edges that you want to cut at the desired angle?

Of course if you went with 8 staves, then your edges would need to be 22.5 degrees and now you'd be making an octagon round. Am I understanding what you're after correctly? If so I'm thinking you simply need to make rip cuts at the desired angles.

Trying to help, hope I am,
Edwin

[lowell holmes]

I assume you are talking about cross cutting the staves.
I would make a plywood sled to ride in the miter gage slots.
I have one and I can cut about anything on it. It rides to the right of the blade.

[Ted Reischl]

No, "rod" does not imply "round". A long thin piece of hexagon stock is called a hexagon rod. What else would it be called? Anyway. . .

The problem with a right tilting saw is that once the first bevel is cut and the piece is flipped over, the point of the cut edge is riding at the bottom of the fence. Prone to jamming, etc. If I am only making a few then I will move the blade to the left side of the fence to do the second cut. Not only is that a PITA but the cutting feels very awkward with the fence to the left of the blade. So, I can see why he is looking for a sled. Short narrow pieces like he wants to cut are problematic.

I took a moment to see if I could draw up a profile of a jig that would do the trick. The problem is that with pieces this small there is very little, if any, surface to clamp the piece once it is flipped over. The saw would cut the clamp off. Here is an end view of the issue:

Capture.JPG

If the piece is going to create a hollow tube (not rod), then there will be a flat surface on top to do clamping. If'n it were me, I would rip an angled fence the same as the piece. Then cut a dust reliev groove in the base. Much better than shoving a pointy, fragile, edge up against a vertical surface.

[Edwin Santos]

No, "rod" does not imply "round". A long thin piece of hexagon stock is called a hexagon rod. What else would it be called? Anyway. . .

Okay, looks like I misunderstood then. Sorry about that.

If I can take another crack at being helpful - it looks like what we need to do is safely rip the sides of the staves at the correct angle. Yes, then what I would do is make a carrier board as Ted suggests with a runner that runs in the miter slot. With the blade tilted trim the carrier board edge to zero clearance. Flip it around and do the same on the other side. One one side, I'd tack and glue on three fences to a snug fit to capture the workpiece with a ledge slightly overhanging the front to prevent the piece from getting lifted. Then I would do the same on the other side to cut it to final width but the long fence would need to be a mating angle against which your first cut edge would register. I think this is what Ted is describing at the end of his post.

I think this jig as described would hold the stave well enough. but if you were very conservative and willing to spend more time, you could add the use of thin double stick tape but I'm not sure it would be necessary. I think this is a fairly safe jig because it runs in the miter slot and your hands would be safely away from the blade.

Edwin

[Ted Reischl]

This is actually a good thread and got me to do some more or less serious thinking. Lately I have been doing some segmented turning. It has been of the ring variety. I was watching YouTube last night (much better than TV) and saw some techniques using stave construction for bowls. I have the same problem as the OP, right tilt saw. This has got me thinking of how to build that sled. One tricky thing is going to be moving the fence and keeping it parallel to the blade to be able to cut different widths. I am also trying to wrap my head around tapered staves in relation to this jig. Good stuff!

Ed, I must have been feeling a tad snarky this afternoon. Probably did not get my nap yet when I typed that. Sheeesh. I like your ideas for this jig and will be keeping them in mind.

[John C Bush]

If your staves are straight(I have made lots of buckets with tapered staves for tapered buckets--straight is much easier) you just set your fence left of the blade, set the blade bevel angle, adjust fence to the correct width of cut for the outside of the stave, cut a stave, spin it 180 dg, run it thru the blade with the wide side up and you are done. Make sure you have a long push stick with a handle that provides down pressure on the stave to control lift as well as forward pressure. you may find it easier--more comfortable--to cut the staves to width at 90 dg then cut the bevels. With the wide side up you won't be trapping the stave under the blade and pre-ripping to width leaves a small managable offcut to scoot out of the way. A good holddown push stick is the key with narrow stock. Good luck, and what are you making with the hex rods??

[John Terefenko]

getting some good ideas here. Will take some thinking for sure. I hate to cut with the fence on the left of the blade for it dos feel awkward and thus I was trying for a sled of some sort. I have an idea in my head and will try to make something of it. Combination of a few ideas. I am not making a hexagon not sure where that came from. When done this will be a round rod. As I said the diameter is not set in stone because I will turn it down. It does not have to be hollow because I will be drilling the center later. To be continued. Thanks everyone.

[Rick Potter]

Perhaps a bandsaw sled?

[Michelle Rich]

don't hold me to this, but maybe woodsmith/shop notes had a sled?

[Doug Hepler]

John,

Have a look at chapters 43 and 46 in this book http://plaza.ufl.edu/chepler/.The book also has chapters on how to make segmented turning blanks that give details on how to calculate the angles needed for cylinders of various numbers of staves. BTW the description is for a left-tilt saw. Just be sure that the waste piece can fall away safely without binding or kicking back at you.

You can also make staves with a router. Bits are available for various numbers of staves. This is very straightforward for long, straight staves. I have not made tapered staves (compound staves) this way but it seems that it would be easy enough.

One tip, if you do not already know this: any tiny error in the bevel angle will add up for each segment. It is very exacting work to get the cylinder to close without visible cracks (and weak joints). One trick is to make an even number of segments, e.g., 12-sided cylinder. Then the half-cylinders will have edges that are 180 deg and you can sand them flat if necessary on a large sanding platen.

Doug

[Jim Tobias]

Have you looked at Bird's Mouth Router bits? They allow you to only cut one side and then fit pieces together tohttp://www.leevalley.com/us/wood/pag...60&cat=1,46168

I've been using them to make some octagon (and other multiple sided )boxes. Once you do a couple of test cuts....it's really fool proof. You can use thicker wood and then turn it into a round piece.
Some of these are veneered with solid wood on one edge.
10.jpg7.jpg8.jpg


Jim

[Roy Turbett]

I don't know if you have one, but the bevel rip cut is easier done on a radial arm saw than a table saw because you can bury the blade in a sacrificial wood fence. It is described in detail on pages 101-108 in the Mr. Sawdust book, " How to Master the Radial Arm Saw".

Flipping the stock over and moving the fence is probably the easiest way to make the cut on a table saw. I have a mag fence for my band saw that I can position face to face with the Biesmeyer style fence on my table saw. When you need to move the fence, put a spacer the exact size you want to move the fence between the two fences and make your next cut. Reposition the mag fence and repeat. I drilled and tapped a hole for a 3/8" 16TC bolt in the mag fence so I could use it as a micro-adjuster from either side of the side. A full turn moves the fence 1/16".

[Doug Hepler]

John

Refer to my earlier post. Our posts crossed in the ether. If I understand your second post you are considering working with the fence to the right of the right-tilt blade. You need to let the cutoff fall free of the blade. Don't let it be between the fence and the blade, as this may cause a burn and maybe a kickback

Doug