Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 32

Thread: Sanding Sealer -When to use- Confusion/clarification needed please.

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2018
    Location
    Madison WI area
    Posts
    149

    Sanding Sealer -When to use- Confusion/clarification needed please.

    A couple questions on Sanding Sealer-

    If i want to STAIN a project, I stain first, then apply sanding sealer, then topcoat correct?

    If painting I put Sanding sealer then color, then top coat if desired?

    Okay...last one... If painting...Sanding Sealer >Primer>Color>Topcoat- Is sealer needed if using Primer such as Bin Shellac Primer?

    #confused

    Thanks
    D
    Ridgid R4513 jobsite saw, Ridgid R4512 Table saw, Ridgid JP601 jointer/planer,
    Jet DC-1100VX-CK Dust collector, Bosch 1617 EVSPK router, Bosch RA1181 router table, Rikon 10-326 Band saw
    Dewalt 735 planer, Fuji Q5Platinum HVLP,

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Bedford, NH
    Posts
    1,286
    Apply sanding sealer first before staining. This will seal the pores and make sanding easier with less potential "scoring" of the actual stain that one might get when the fines get caught up in the sanding paper. Similar to a stain pre-treatment/wood conditioner the sanding seal will minimize blotching on softer woods, and provide for a better, more uniform stain.
    Last edited by Al Launier; 03-11-2018 at 9:25 AM.
    Thoughts entering one's mind need not exit one's mouth!
    As I age my memory fades .... and that's a load off my mind!

    "We Live In The Land Of The Free, Only Because Of The Brave"
    “The problems we face today are there because the people who work for a living are outnumbered by those who vote for a living."
    "
    Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." Winston Churchill

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Deep South
    Posts
    3,970
    You may not need a sanding sealer at all depending on the species and what you want the finish to be. If the wood doesn't have undesirable pores to fill and isn't prone to blotching, why use it? My advice is to buy enough material so that you have some scrap to try a finish schedule that you haven't used before. That way, you will know what you are getting. I have seen dozens of posts from people who messed up a project because they tried a new method without experimentation first.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Location
    Marina del Rey, Ca
    Posts
    1,934
    Quote Originally Posted by Al Launier View Post
    Apply sanding sealer first before staining...
    This. Apply first.
    "Anything seems possible when you don't know what you're doing."

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    WNY
    Posts
    9,648
    I never use sanding sealer. IMHO it's a waste of money. If I need to use a sealer, I use Sealcoat shellac. For the finishes I use, that product works across all of them.

    If painting, I use primer first, not sanding sealer. Generally, I use BIN pigmented shellac primer, but sometimes you have to use primer specific to the paint going over it. And sometimes the paint is it's own primer. In any case, I don't see a place for sanding sealer under paint.

    John

  6. #6
    David,

    See the thread entitled "finishing question" below. I'm with those who say that you rarely need to seal wood before applying your finish coats. Sanding sealer is a thin varnish with an inorganic soap (stearate) in it to lubricate sandpaper. The stearate may interfere with bonding of finish coats, especially some polyurethanes and water-based finishes. IMO routinely using sanding sealer is "received wisdom" that often has no solid rationale. On the occasions when you do need a seal coat or barrier coat consider using dewaxed shellac (e.g., Zinsser Seal Coat) as John recommended above.

    Doug

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    Tasmania
    Posts
    2,162
    The first rule is to keep it simple.

    In general, stain first then apply coating whatever it is. Sanding sealer can be used but it is not necessary. In a production environment it gets used as it is quick drying and speeds work flow. However, it is not a generic product. You must use the one that matches the top coat ie from the same manufacturer or face problems as outlined by Doug. I don't use one at home but have used them in production shops. I stick with the same product all the way through. There are no compatibility issues with this approach.

    When staining, you get the best colour by applying the colour directly to the timber. This make your colour clear and highlights the timber itself. The principle here is that you stain to enhance the appearance of the timber. If you seal the surface first, the colour goes uniformly over the surface like a weak paint rather than reacting with the timber as a stain. This hides the grain to some extent and creates a quite different appearance that doesn't really enhance the timber. If your timber is one that goes blotchy, either don't stain or you may have to sacrifice clarity and seal first. For me, if a timber doesn't take stain well, I don't used it in that situation but others here have techniques for dealing with blotching.

    When painting, your paint manufacturer should supply a primer and top coat that match. This is a coating system. The primer should be readily sandable. If it is not, change to a manufacturer that makes products that are good to use. With a good primer/topcoat combination, sanding sealer is irrelevant. Cheers

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 2018
    Location
    Madison WI area
    Posts
    149
    Sounds like the sales guy at my paint store made a sale because i was un informed.....i never used it before and thought i must have been doing something wrong... My goal is to practice and learn how to make some glass smooth finishes on my wood projects.. ie table top, book shelves, etc... i thought the sanding sealer was a component i was missing. I have an auto body background.. you know.. prepare metal, prime , using a sanding primer, paint, clear coat...WALA Done.. LOL
    Ridgid R4513 jobsite saw, Ridgid R4512 Table saw, Ridgid JP601 jointer/planer,
    Jet DC-1100VX-CK Dust collector, Bosch 1617 EVSPK router, Bosch RA1181 router table, Rikon 10-326 Band saw
    Dewalt 735 planer, Fuji Q5Platinum HVLP,

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    Tasmania
    Posts
    2,162
    Since you have an auto painting background, you are set for painting techniques. You just don't need as many stages. High build primer, sand, colour is all you need. Clear over if you feel like it or the system demands it. Cheers

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    177
    Quote Originally Posted by David Ruhland View Post
    A couple questions on Sanding Sealer-

    If i want to STAIN a project, I stain first, then apply sanding sealer, then topcoat correct?
    This is a standard procedure dependent on the wood being used.
    Sanding sealer may not be needed dependent on the topcoat being used.
    Sanding sealer may have to be applied first to control blotching.

    If painting I put Sanding sealer then color, then top coat if desired?
    No, when painting you use a primer that works in conjunction with your topcoat. Not all primers are created equal and never use a soft primer with a hard topcoat.

    Okay...last one... If painting...Sanding Sealer >Primer>Color>Topcoat- Is sealer needed if using Primer such as Bin Shellac Primer?
    No. See above. Typically when using a quality product you will need Primer matched to Coloured Topcoat. Personally I go the the manufacture and ask what they recommend and follow their procedure. I mix don't mix brands, to hard to figure out a problem by mixing up product lines.
    Last edited by Jim Becker; 03-12-2018 at 9:17 AM. Reason: fixed quote tagging

  11. #11
    which type of sanding sealer? For oak and other open grain woods, there is a paste style sealer that fills the pores in one coat and leaves a thin residue on the wood that must be sanded off. It leaves oak as smooth as glass with no open pores. Then there is a sanding sealer like Bull's Eye sanding sealer and that is nothing but UNWAXED shellac and denatured alcohol. It is far too thin to fill the pores in oak with a single application. Any finish can be used over the shellac sanding sealer because it does not contain wax. Using waxed shellac limits using some finishes. There is another water based sanding sealer from Min wax. I don't know much about it, I have never used it. Years ago, I wanted an ebony finish on a pine end table. I stripped and sanded the table. Painted it with black permanent India Ink and a very fine grit light finish sanding and then formby's tung oil finish. My Dad who had been a cabinet maker, thought it came out great. And then indicated that I spent more time making it look like something than if I had built the table from scratch with proper materials.

  12. #12
    I don't use it. IMO its not necessary and in cases where I might use a sealer, I use shellac (such as sealing knots prior to painting)

    I suppose you could use it if you were concerned about blotching or maybe on a very resinous wood.

    The BIN shellac based primer is excellent. I still pre-coat the knots with shellac for insurance.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Kansas City
    Posts
    2,652
    Aren't many of the sanding sealers (and primers) basically shellac?

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Location
    Marina del Rey, Ca
    Posts
    1,934
    The sanding sealer I have used has been acrylic. Most gets sanded off before applying stain.
    "Anything seems possible when you don't know what you're doing."

  15. #15
    There are many types of sanding sealers...

    Some are meant to prevent oils in the wood from bleeding into finishes or causing finishes to not harden properly (Shellac is fantastic for this duty)

    Some are made to hide grain features and make stains and dyes work more uniformly - to prevent leaving blotches and funny ugly shadows, dark pores, etc...

    Some are made to provide a slightly flexible coating so that a final coating won't crack or peel when the wood expands and contracts (vinyl sealers are used under lacquer for this)

    etc....

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •