smci f41 jointer weight

[John Welty]

Hi
I am thinking of buying a used smci f41 16" jointer located several states away. The price is very good so I'm willing to take a chance on the thing.
My problem is
Cant really find a weight on the beast.
Anyone know how hard it would be to remove the tables on a parallelogram type jointer?
It's a three phase, any idea if a static type converter would work on a 6hp 3 phase? Or how hard it would be to find and replace the motor with around a 4- 5 hp single phase? Standard motor bases on Smci tools? I have traded motors from 3 to single phase on my table saw and Planer, they had standard size bases so not much of a problem.
I looked at the Smci site for it and the manual is not the best, thats being generous.
I have a trailer that will take 1000 lbs and can puts parts in the back of my 1/2 ton truck so I can move quite a bit of total weight if parts can be be spread around some. And much easier to put into my shop if parts are off to lighten it up around between truck and trailer.

Any help or ideas??

[Martin Wasner]

My guess would be around 1000# If you can find the weight of a new one, you'd be in the ballpark for weight. I don't like maxing out trailers.

Swapping motors would probably be a headache and more expensive than ruining a vfd. Euro motors are weird everything.

I personally wouldn't remove the tables unless absolutely necessary.

[Jeff Heath]

Forget about a static phase converter. They can ruin a 3 phase motor. Your options are a VFD, although you'd need to find one rated at 12 hp, as they derate at 2 to 1 for single phase to 3 phase control. A 10 hp might work, but I wouldn't. A rotary phase converter is your best bet. You'll need a 10 hp unit. I built mine for $250, and another $100 or a 10 hp Baldor 3 hp motor. If you are patient, I frequently see RPC's for sale for a few hundred bucks, depending on size. I paid $700 for my other 20 hp RPC, which is a brand new American Rotary CNC balanced RPC, from a guy on Clist who bought it and never took it out of the plastic wrap. They are out there.

Is it belt drive or direct drive? Belt drive motors are easy to swap. Direct drive......forget it. Besides, why would you want to ruin a good machine by going single phase. 3 phase machines are so much smoother and better. Finding a RPC is the clear choice. It's a one time expense that opens up future 3 phase machine purchases. I actually pull single phase motors off machines and replace them with 3 phase motors. They are that much better.......and 3 phase machinery is always cheaper, because 90% of the buyers are under false pretenses about how easy it is to acquire 3 phase power off of single phase household current.

I own 2 VFD's for 2 different machines, my Oliver woodworking lathe, and my 2"X72" belt grinder that I built. They are perfect for variable speed control.

[Peter Kelly]

If you want to attempt moving it yourself, rent a truck with a lift gate. That machine has some feet underneath so you should be able to drag it around with a pallet jack. I think Penske's 24' options have gates far that size are rated for 2,500lbs.

I can tell you that metric single phase motors are very difficult to source so I wouldn't bother with changing it out. Per above, VFD would be the best choice if you only have single phase power.

[Malcolm McLeod]

Forget about a static phase converter. They can ruin a 3 phase motor. Your options are a VFD, although you'd need to find one rated at 12 hp, as they derate at 2 to 1 for single phase to 3 phase control. A 10 hp might work, but I wouldn't. A rotary phase converter is your best bet. You'll need a 10 hp unit. I built mine for $250, and another $100 or a 10 hp Baldor 3 hp motor. If you are patient, I frequently see RPC's for sale for a few hundred bucks, depending on size. I paid $700 for my other 20 hp RPC, which is a brand new American Rotary CNC balanced RPC, from a guy on Clist who bought it and never took it out of the plastic wrap. They are out there.

Is it belt drive or direct drive? Belt drive motors are easy to swap. Direct drive......forget it. Besides, why would you want to ruin a good machine by going single phase. 3 phase machines are so much smoother and better. Finding a RPC is the clear choice. It's a one time expense that opens up future 3 phase machine purchases. I actually pull single phase motors off machines and replace them with 3 phase motors. They are that much better.......and 3 phase machinery is always cheaper, because 90% of the buyers are under false pretenses about how easy it is to acquire 3 phase power off of single phase household current.

I own 2 VFD's for 2 different machines, my Oliver woodworking lathe, and my 2"X72" belt grinder that I built. They are perfect for variable speed control.

De-rate is actually 1.73 : 1 (square root of 3). So, by that standard you'd need a 10.38 hp VFD. Not many that size I'd bet? So, next standard size up is still 15hp.

Reason for the de-rate is that power in must equal power out. So, if you output 6hp at 230VAC/3ph at a tad less that 20A., then the input side of the VFD at 230VAC/1ph has to get 6Hp too, and that draws a bit over 30A (to get the same power). The VFD components must be sized for the higher 30A.

Were it mine, I'd swap to a 5hp 230VAC/1ph motor - - IF it was a belt drive.
If direct drive, I'm with Jeff - VFD or converter (and I'll stay out of the converter debate).

....Not really about moving it, but that part is fairly easy if you bring an engine hoist.

[Peter Kelly]

SCM jointers are belt drive. The mount positions for the motor and pulleys will be metric.

[Rod Sheridan]

I wouldn't take the tables off.

It's a jointer, you don't need 6 HP at all.

16" jointers run fine on 3 HP or 4 HP.

You should be able to purchase a 3 HP VFD with single phase input for a reasonable amount. Just program the VFD for 3 HP output.............Regards, Rod.

[Brian Holcombe]

Shipping weight on an FS41 Elite S is 1470lbs. I had it delivered by a frieght truck that had a lift gate.

I don't believe it's an easy swap to a single phase motor, the switches (four of them on my machine) are designed for the motor that comes with the machine, so you'd have to change all of them as well.

I bought a rotary phase converter for another machine in my shop, I'd venture a guess that buying a rotary phase converter for the machine you have in mind would probably be a wash cost wise or possible cheaper than swapping to a single phase motor.

SCM quoted me the price for their current single phase motor and it was IIRC $2500.

MY RPC is super quiet, I dont even notice that it is on when the DC and machine are running. The one three phase motor I have is considerably quieter than the two single phase motors I have of a similar size.

[Peter Kelly]

https://www.partspronto.com/MachineD...S%20MANUAL.pdf

An F410 is 750kg / 1,653lbs without the mortising attachment.

[Jeff Heath]

I wouldn't take the tables off.

It's a jointer, you don't need 6 HP at all.

16" jointers run fine on 3 HP or 4 HP.

You should be able to purchase a 3 HP VFD with single phase input for a reasonable amount. Just program the VFD for 3 HP output.............Regards, Rod.

I respectfully disagree. I have a 7.5 hp motor on my 16" Yates American. I frequently face full width boards, and can take very heavy cuts without the machine even noticing it. If you're using the 16" jointer to edge joint 8/4 lumber, it hardly matters, but if you're surfacing wide boards with it, 3 hp is not going to allow that machine to be utilized to it's fullest capabilities. It'll certainly work, but not optimally. The manufacturers engineer these machines to have the correct power, and SCMI got it right with a 6 hp motor. I had a 16" machine with only a 5 hp motor on it, and I could not take the surfacing cuts I now do with the 7.5 hp motor.

Not arguing with you here, Rod, just sharing my daily experiences.

[David Kumm]

You can find either a 10 hp vfd that can be derated or a 5 hp single phase input 5 hp output for less than $500 now. That is what I'd do until a used rpc shows up. Jack Forsberg over at canadianwoodworking.com can set you up if needed. Dave

[John TenEyck]

I took the tables off my FS35 in order to move it down into my basement shop. Its not something I recommend if you can avoid it. The bolts holding the tables on were bedded with epoxy or some type of permanent Locktite type product. I got them loose, but thought more than once they were going to break during the process. I would rent a larger trailer.

John

[Bill Dufour]

The bolts holding the tables on were bedded with epoxy or some type of permanent Locktite type product. I got them loose, but thought more than once they were going to break during the process. I would rent a larger trailer.

Probably should have heated them with torch to about 300F and remove while hot. Of course this will burn paint and could catch sawdust on fire.
Bill D.

[Chris Padilla]

I respectfully disagree. I have a 7.5 hp motor on my 16" Yates American. I frequently face full width boards, and can take very heavy cuts without the machine even noticing it. If you're using the 16" jointer to edge joint 8/4 lumber, it hardly matters, but if you're surfacing wide boards with it, 3 hp is not going to allow that machine to be utilized to it's fullest capabilities. It'll certainly work, but not optimally. The manufacturers engineer these machines to have the correct power, and SCMI got it right with a 6 hp motor. I had a 16" machine with only a 5 hp motor on it, and I could not take the surfacing cuts I now do with the 7.5 hp motor.

Not arguing with you here, Rod, just sharing my daily experiences.

I have an FS41-Elite from Minimax and for sure, the motor is not larger than 5 hp 1-phase (likely smaller but don't recall sitting here thinking about it) and the journal holds 3 Tersa blades. I'm only a hobbyist but I've never had it bog down in either jointer or planer mode FWIW. I run mostly maple and walnut through my J/P.

[Brian Holcombe]

Mine has the same 5hp~ motor, I’ve tajen some pretty heavy cuts with the full capacity of material and it doesn’t bog even mildly.