CAMaster Stinger 1 or ShopSabre 23

[Gary Campbell]

Well played!

[todd werner]

Gary
With a "desktop" machine like this, is there any advantage to leaving assess to the underside through the middle of the table I'm building for it?

[Gary Campbell]

Todd...
You will want to check, adjust or lube the drive components on a regular schedule. I set one end up on a couple blocks of wood to do my table tops.

[james mcgrew]

Dang this was a good read !! See you guys in April !! Shopbot, CAMaster, Axiom and hopefully one more will be bringing machines !

[Art Mann]

Hey Todd,
I have cut a lot of wood and plastic on my Stinger I in the last 3 years as a hobbyist and my spindle is just a Porter Cable router. From my experience, all your concerns about accuracy and skipping steps on a stepper machine are wasted. My two regrets are that I didn't buy a real spindle and the cutting envelope is too small. If you buy a good machine like you are contmplating, you should be much more concerned with mastering the software and learning the stuff only experience can teach. I didn't do a class early on but probably should have. This is coming from someone who spent much of my career designing digital controls for manufacturing machines.

[todd werner]

Hi Art,

Thanks for the input. It's quite possible my concerns on losing steps are silly, but my son wants to be able to cut aluminum, and there seemed to be no harm in looking for a little extra torque. I actually spoke to Camaster, and they are going to build my Stinger 1 with 500 oz motors on all the axis. I am paying for that, but they were certain the rigidity of the machine is sufficient, and their engineer didn't see any downside other than the cost. They will have to re-engineer a couple of mounting plates for the slightly larger motors, but I suspect that since I'm doing it and that work will be easier after mine is , they may make 500 oz motors an option moving forward.

On the size issue, I actually considered the used Stinger 2 that just got listed, but there's no way I can get it down the stairs and through the door to my basement. Besides, for what I'll be doing, it's not necessary. Fretboard inlays, guitar parts, maybe some small 1/4" or so thick aluminum parts, foam, and end milling on 2-3 foot long boards for joinery. The longest pieces I see myself cutting will be 36 to 38" long, so I think I'm ok with 24x48". I have no desire to make big cabinets or work with sheet materials. It's just a hobby tool for me, not something for a business.

I have ordered a 1/8" collet already, and several end mills. Some flat/fishtail end in right and left spiral, some ball end, some tiny diamond burr left spiral for inlays, a 1/4" Whiteside V-grooving bit. I've only ordered up to 3/8" bits other than the spoil board bit. I'm also watching some Fusion 360 videos and planning to start the table and dust collection plumbing. Possibly the most important thing is that I will take a class on CNC at our local technical college this fall, and possibly the subsequent courses as well.

[Bruce Page]

I have ordered a 1/8" collet already, and several end mills. Some flat/fishtail end in right and left spiral, some ball end, some tiny diamond burr left spiral for inlays, a 1/4" Whiteside V-grooving bit. I've only ordered up to 3/8" bits other than the spoil board bit.

That's a good start.

[richard newman]

Todd, i my experience it's not necessary to use down cut spiral tools for inlay. I've had excellent results with regular 2 or 4 flute micro mills, from .015 up 1/8", in ebony and other nasty, brittle woods. The rigidity and controlled feed make routing a whole new game. For the tiny bits runout is critical, at least according to the experts. If you haven't already discovered them, PreciseBits has tons of information and great products. https://www.precisebits.com/

[todd werner]

Nicely organized Bruce.

Richard, I got the diamond Burr left spirals for ablam or abalone, not for the fretboard or soundboard. They were only a few bucks each. What do you mean that the run-out is important? On the bit or on the spindle/collet?

[Gary Campbell]

Todd...
You use the term "right and left spiral" a number of times. Are you referring to upcut and downcut or to CW and CCW rotation?

[todd werner]

Up cut and down cut if the spindle only turns one way.

[richard newman]

Nicely organized Bruce.

Richard, I got the diamond Burr left spirals for ablam or abalone, not for the fretboard or soundboard. They were only a few bucks each. What do you mean that the run-out is important? On the bit or on the spindle/collet?

Run-out of the bit is what counts, but it all comes from the accuracy of spindle taper and the the collet. I would talk to Camaster and make sure they know you're going to use micro bits and need a spindle with minimal run-out. Maybe they'd be willing to indicate a few of them and give you the best one.

When you get the machine, put a bit in and indicate on the shank with a good test indicator. You can rotate the collet in the taper til you find the best matchup, and then mark it. If you're lucky what ever errors are present will cancel each other out and you'll have perfection. That's the way my marriage works... so far.

[todd werner]

Richard,
The idea of rotating the collet to try and oppose the run-outs is fantastic advice. Thanks.

[Bruce Page]

Richard,
The idea of rotating the collet to try and oppose the run-outs is fantastic advice. Thanks.

If you buy quality collets (precisebits.com) and not cheap knock offs you should be fine. You can find imports at 1/3 the price but there’s a reason for that. I always buy precision grade and check them with a precision ground pin and a tenth indicator. I haven’t found one with a TIR worse than .0005 with most better than that. Remember, collets are a consumable and will wear out with use, they must be cleaned/blown out with each tool change and must be snapped into the collet nut firmly.
I checked my spindle runout when my machine was first set up and it barely moved the needle.

[Jim Becker]

It's also extremely important to clean the collet each and every time it's used and the bit is removed...but that should go without saying. I agree with Bruce that this is one place to ALWAYS buy quality. So when it's time to replace what comes with your machine or to add other sizes...invest in good ones, even though collets are technically a "disposable" wear item.