"Absolute wealth of techniques in this video for any project."

[Peter Kelly]

Don't watch his video on kickback. You'll be less clear on that..

[Simon MacGowen]

When the rock throwers have finished, maybe you could all explain how come this guy has all of his fingers.

You serious, Mark after all this "statistics does not apply to an individual" thing?

Not every Russian Roulette kills in the first shot.

Simon

[Mark Hennebury]

Simon,
I too have worked decades in a similar fashion and i too have all of my fingers, not bragging just stating a fact. That makes at least two of us that apparently defy the laws of nature.

According to your responses, this way of working is guaranteed to cause loss of fingers. You were all quite clear on that point.

So you can play games, make your jokes and deflect and change the subject but you cannot answer that question without it conflicting with your logic, so i don't expect any will answer directly.

You cannot explain how someone acting in such a "Recklessly Dangerous" manner can survive a day in the workshop without a serious accident, let alone decades it is just not feasible, it defies logic and the laws of nature....unless you are wrong.
So i don't expect you to answer the question.

[Marshall Harrison]

Does his audience know that, too?

Simon

That's the kicker. He is welcome to use his tools anyway he wants to and only he has to pay the consequences. But when you when you start doing videos that inexperienced woodworkers may see and copy his techniques out of ignorance or lack of experience then you have problems.

[Mark Hennebury]

That's the kicker. He is welcome to use his tools anyway he wants to and only he has to pay the consequences. But when you when you start doing videos that inexperienced woodworkers may see and copy his techniques out of ignorance or lack of experience then you have problems.

Who appointed him baby sitter on the world.

What would happen if people copied him, they would end up just like him, happily working away in his shop making nice stuff, confident and relaxed with his machines and being able to count on all ten fingers, what is so bad about that?

There are a lot of videos on the internet, they cover every level of expertise, are you suggesting that someone police the internet and make only beginner videos?

How about we only make phoney videos, like was suggested, you know the old do like i say not like i do, type. Someone suggested teachers lie to their students and teach them to work in a way that the teacher would not themselves work.

[Simon MacGowen]

Simon,
I too have worked decades in a similar fashion and i too have all of my fingers, not bragging just stating a fact. That makes at least two of us that apparently defy the laws of nature.

According to your responses, this way of working is guaranteed to cause loss of fingers. You were all quite clear on that point.

.

His way of working is guaranteed to cause an injury or two (it could be a finger loss, a kickback, etc.), but not necessarily to him or to any particular person. That is what statistics is about.

It is no different from the fact that smoking will cause lung cancer, but not to every smoker or any particular smoker. My uncle is turning 93 this month and he was a smoker (he stopped about 30 years ago after close to 45 years of smoking). My mom-in-law was not a smoker but she died of lung cancer.

You and he are not defying the laws of nature. You both are increasing your chances of getting hurt.

Simon

[Marshall Harrison]

Who appointed him baby sitter on the world.

What would happen if people copied him, they would end up just like him, happily working away in his shop making nice stuff, confident and relaxed with his machines and being able to count on all ten fingers, what is so bad about that?

There are a lot of videos on the internet, they cover every level of expertise, are you suggesting that someone police the internet and make only beginner videos?

How about we only make phoney videos, like was suggested, you know the old do like i say not like i do, type. Someone suggested teachers lie to their students and teach them to work in a way that the teacher would not themselves work.

I'm not sure if you are attacking me or the guy on Youtube. But to answer some of your points:

No one wants or needs to have the internet policed or censored. But with great power comes greater responsibility. If you are posting woodworking how-to videos then you should show safe practices. Or at least add a caution to the video about how/why you are doing something that may be unsafe.

Everyone has some things that are do as I say not as I do in everything we do. But again that should be pointed out if you are trying to instruct others.

I carefully examined his hands and he has all his fingers and they all appear to be the correct length so obviously his methods have worked for him. But that doesn't mean they will always work out in his favor. Cutting small pieces on the table saw especially when oriented vertically is not a good practice and could get someone trying to copy him in some deep kimchi.

[Keith Outten]

All of you Safety Police Deputies need to lighten up. Every point you have made is true but you can't police the Internet. Your blood pressure is going off the charts guys, let it go.

The only thing a novice needs to know is that they need to read and follow all of the safety precautions in their owners manuals, that's where you start. People who try to shortcut the necessity to learn to work safely from the proper sources are bound to make mistakes that are often serious. Accept that none of you can make any kind of impact on this issue and let it go. The alternative is that you can form an organization to get the government to enforce safety rules and regulations in home shops. In time we will all have to register our table saws and ultimately the government will try to take them away

We need to teach people to be responsible for their own actions.

[Mark Hennebury]

I'm not sure if you are attacking me or the guy on Youtube. But to answer some of your points:

No one wants or needs to have the internet policed or censored. But with great power comes greater responsibility. If you are posting woodworking how-to videos then you should show safe practices. Or at least add a caution to the video about how/why you are doing something that may be unsafe.

Everyone has some things that are do as I say not as I do in everything we do. But again that should be pointed out if you are trying to instruct others.

I carefully examined his hands and he has all his fingers and they all appear to be the correct length so obviously his methods have worked for him. But that doesn't mean they will always work out in his favor. Cutting small pieces on the table saw especially when oriented vertically is not a good practice and could get someone trying to copy him in some deep kimchi.

For starters, i was the one defending.

It is quite obvious that we differ on the concept of what is safe practice; I do a lot of joinery on the table saw without the guard, i consider that i work safely, in a dangerous situation. Woodworking is dangerous, and some are not suited to it.
I have cut thousands of complex joints on the table saw, including all sizes ( from tiny to 5" deep) of bridle and halflap joints without incident in much the same fashion as the guy in the movie. If you know what you are doing and follow proper procedures there will be no problems. So why would i think that it is unsafe? It is not unsafe because you or any number of people say so.
Blades don’t have a mind of their own, they behave according to the laws of physics and are quite predictable as are the materials that you cut. So if your process is sound you need not be fearful of working close to blades.

And i have every right to post how i do my work as anyone else. It is not for me to determine the ability or lack thereof of the audience. And neither am i in any obliged to only show beginner processes. That is the freedom and the problem with the internet. It is information, good and bad, buyer beware. It is not divided up into beginners, intermediate and master class sections.


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[Steve Demuth]

There is a lot of talk in this thread about the need for people to take responsibility for their own actions. Posting a "how to" video on youtube is an action, and taking responsibility for it means either not using, or being clear when we do use, techniques that require exceptional care or skill, are outside of best practices, or which are inherently dangerous. No law will force any of us to do that, but when we something in a broadcast informational or educational forum and we don't, we're being irresponsible.

It is not for me to determine the ability or lack thereof of the audience.

You don't have to. If you're posting on youtube, you already know that your audience includes people who are pros, and other who are rank beginners.

[Tony Joyce]

Well said, Keith. I especially agree with your last sentence.

[Simon MacGowen]

We need to teach people to be responsible for their own actions.

Hi Keith,

When it comes to shop safety, people to be responsible for their own actions should include not just the woodworkers themselves whatever their levels are but, more importantly, also those who produce instructional, informational, educational or demonstration videos, regardless of which group of woodworkers they intend to target at.

The big question thrown around here is are some of those video content makers being responsible by showing from risky to dangerous to unsafe to reckless shop procedures, knowing that their audience could be any one? Some probably think so; some -- including me -- don't.

As far as I see it, no one is policing or is interested in policing the internet or video contents (this isn't China or North Korea). Yet, nothing is wrong when one expresses one's disapproval of such irresponsible contents. Of course, it would be naive for anyone to think that their expressed words of disapproval would result in behavioral changes from those who disagree with them.

Simon

[Brian Holcombe]

Are you guys serious that you think the internet should be policed for proper safety procedures? According to what safety board?

Please wait here while I delete anything and everything I’ve ever contributed to the internet. I’m sure everyone else who doesn’t have a team of lawyers would follow.

[Edwin Santos]

I'm not an attorney, and maybe a tort lawyer among us could answer this hypothetical question. What if someone put up YouTube videos that showcased something dangerous without any disclaimers or warnings. Then let's say a viewer goes out to imitate what they've seen on the video and hurts themselves which they would not have done but for the video that prompted them. Could a lawsuit come out of the incident that attaches any liability to the person who made and uploaded the video? Or maybe liability for YouTube itself because it was the medium?

I'm thinking it may because otherwise why would stunt oriented TV shows be riddled with disclaimers and warnings if they don't need to? I'm not trying to argue one side or another but I think it's an interesting question. I tried googling the question and all I can find is information about copyright and fair use issues. I'd love to hear from someone who would know.

Either way, if you're a viewer, buyer beware and make your own decision about whether what you see is something you should try, and if you're a video maker I would think having a lead-in disclaimer like Norm did on his TV show is a good move. I don't think anyone is going to start policing the internet and it will continue to be consume at your own risk. By the way Mark H., that's some beautiful joinery!

Edwin

[Edwin Santos]

The alternative is that you can form an organization to get the government to enforce safety rules and regulations in home shops. In time we will all have to register our table saws and ultimately the government will try to take them away

Please sir, let's keep politics out of this or you might be paid a visit by the moderators