Compact Tractor

[Perry Hilbert Jr]

If you buy private, get somebody that knows tractors to look it over first. There are things the tractor newbie just won't realize to look for. A tractor that is too small will always be a PIA. A larger than needed tractor comes in handy more than you could know. Here in the farm, I only have three tractors. A 1948 Ford 8N, tractor which is great, except it has all the problems associated with gas engines, ignition shorts, carburetor adjustments, updraft carb that floods easily, carb floats that are eaten by the modern gas additives. I also have a 1973 Ford 4,000. Also a gas tractor but with fewer gas engine problems than the 8N. Then I have a JD 210C back hoe/loader, diesel, power shift, 4wd. My drive way is just a hair over 1,400 ft long A tractor with front end loader to clear it would have to be massive to do an efficient job. I can clear a 15 inch snow with the JD in about 15 minutes. one pass out and clean up the parking area and driveway entrance . The back hoe is diesel and far less maintenance. The back hoe also weighs 11,000 lbs and using the back hoe for digging trenches for water lines, electric lines etc, is much easier than some toy attachment for a subcompact tractor. My neighbor has 7 acres and plows his driveway with an old Farmall H tricycle tractor. It takes him forever to clear his driveway if the snow is over 10 inches. The rear mount woods mower only does a fair job mowing. It also has all the ignition and carburetor problems that come with a gas tractor. But, he got it for $700. Diesel tractors can be a problem starting in cold weather, but in the last 20 years, there have been many improvements to alleviate starting problems. If your property is flat, and snows are moderate, you may not need 4wd. A used compact tractor around here, (hilly) that is 4wd brings 2x or 3x as much as a two wheel drive identical tractor. My Ford 4000 has been good, but repair parts can be expensive. ($389 for an OEM radiator) ( $700 for a new carb.) Been looking for a newer diesel 4wd tractor in the 50 hp range. They are not cheap unless they have been beat to heck. 30 to 35 K for new finding one for less than 10K is really hard. Every 2 acre farmette in the area wants a compact or subcompact tractor. It is rare to see one for less than 5K in reasonable shape. I recently saw an 19 hp garden tractor with a home made front end loader bring over 3k. I would not have given $500 for just the lawn tractor. But it takes two fools to run up bids at an auction.

As for front end loaders. A standard toothless front end bucket can NOT dig anything but snow, sand and loose gravel. The small tractors have no weight to push the bucket into material to dig, and unless the bucket has a bar with teeth to break up the soil or bank, it simply can't get a bite to dig. Guy I know wanted to regrade his yard and bought a small tractor with front end loader. he tried for a few hours and realized he wasted his money for what he wanted to do. The bank was all virgin packed shale. The bucket just kept scraping over it. It would have taken a huge track loader to do what he wanted. I also use my back hoe to get firewood here in my own wood lot. I can put about 3/5 of a cord in the front bucket. My tractor bucket is so much smaller that perhaps only a 1/5 of a cord will fit. I have seen folks try to pull stumps with their small tractors. They just dig holes with their wheels. Trying to pull with a bucket lifting is an invitation to tipping the tractor forward or breaking the loader.

[Jim Becker]

Dave, if you're going to do forks for your FEL, how much you need to lift with them (the actual application) is very important to know since just like FEL capacity and safety using it is affected by weight in the back, putting things on forks extended in front of the FEL also extends that weight farther forward. Think "lever". A partial solution to that is getting a tractor that has a quick attachment setup on the FEL arms...you can swap the bucket for forks and some other things. You'll need to be in the compact size, rather than the sub-compact size tractor and a quick attachment setup that's compatible with the skid-steer world opens up a lot more options.

Perry is correct that you have to understand what a particular tractor is capable of, both functionally and safely. There are work arounds for many tasks with a smaller machine as I've learned to do over the years. He mentioned stumps. No way you "pull" them. But I do dig them out and then drag them away to "the pile" with my little machine. It take time, but I have that available and my hourly rate to myself is pretty good.

[Tom M King]

To answer the question about weight on the little Kubota, it had a finish mower on the back, so not much weight, but did have 4wd. I'm just used to a 70 hp with 7 foot bucket, and it'll fill the bucket with whatever is on the back.

For those that don't know what a power reverser is (also called shuttle shift by some manufacturers), it's a standard transmission, but has a little lever to the left of the steering wheel, that you flip back and forth with your little finger, that changes from forward to reverse, without having to use the clutch. No pedals to step on unless you want to use the accelerator pedal. I much prefer a power reverser to a hydrostatic transmission. I would have worn out several hydrostatic transmissions in the years I've used the 70 hp with reverser, but we live on what the locals call "The Ponderosa".

edited to add: The only trouble with a reverser is that it's guaranteed after running one for a few hours, when you get in the truck to back up, you'll look back, and hit the left turn signal to back up, and it won't work.

I much prefer also, to rent a mini-excavator over having a small backhoe, but I have a trailer I can pick up a 4 or 5 ton excavator with, and a dually to pull it with. For short trenches, I rent a walk behind trencher, and use the trailer they come with. There are times when I wish I had a backhoe, but have never come close to paying for one comparing cost of other equipment rentals. I use a mini-excavator every year or so, for different things, but can do a Lot of work in 8 hours with one. The last job I needed one for was to bury a horse, and am getting ready to go get one, as soon as the ground dries out some, for some grading, to consolidate a burning pile, and to pull up some small Pine trees that are on a bank too steep to get to with a small chainsaw. A hoe with a thumb and long arm is good for a lot of things. Of course, everyone needs to figure out what's best for their situation.

[John K Jordan]

Good point about the diesel I didn't mention. I have one gas zero turn mower and a little utility truck with a gas engine - I don't use either any more. The tractor, bobcat, mower, and utility truck I use now (plus a Dodge 2500 truck) are all diesel engines. Not only do they always start, they have plenty of low end torque, good hydraulics, hydrostatic drives, and have better fuel economy. Offroad diesel fuel for the farm vehicles is readily available and without road taxes. The little Kubota diesel farm truck even has a hydraulic dump bed - something I didn't realize how much I would use until I got it.

I keep a toothed digging bar on the bobcat bucket all the time. You are correct, digging with a toothless bucket is almost impossible unless the soil is soft.

As for renting a mini-excavator instead of having a backhoe, I guess it depends on how much you might use it and how much notice you have. With a friend here putting in a concrete porch for me it was only a few minutes for me to go get the backhoe and dig the footers, saving the hours and and the pre-planning to reserve, haul, use, return, and pay for a rental. I dug a 250' trench for underground power for the shop then used the backhoe a few days later to fill in the trench. Broken underground water line? Dig it up and fix it in two hours instead of all day. Installing a livestock waterer 1000' from the house I rented a ditch digger but couldn't have dug out around the junctions and under the waterer without it and with about two days of digging by hand 4' down. Dig up a stump, put in a drainage ditch, plant fruit trees, bury a horse or a llama or a trespasser? (JK!) Dig the hole when needed without logistical consideration like waiting until the rental store is open on Monday and rushing to get done by return time. My backhoe attachment was about $7000 extra but it's paid for itself if not in rental fees but in convenience.

One more thing about tractors for general use. The best thing I did for mine was to install top-and-tilt hydraulics on the 3-point hitch. Even simple grading the driveway (mine is about 1/4 mile) is so much simpler since I can adjust the angles of the yard box or grading blade on the fly without having to get off and crank and try again. Perfect for adjusting the bushhog on slopes, the auger to drill straight, and the fence post driver. Even hooking up equipment is quicker. After years of using this I don't think I'd want a tractor without it.

I've always thought if I was king I'd have three tractors - a small one for getting in tight places, especially in the woods, a medium sized one for moving gravel, turning compost piles, and grading the driveway, and a big honkin' tractor for stumps and heavy logs and unloading bundles of lumber, digging, and seeding and bailing hay. The big one would have a cab with heat and air! My old used bobcat, more powerful than my tractor, is a compromise but I'd hate to do without it.

Related to woodworking: ready to build the shop.
Clearing_2012-08-09_19-32-4.jpg

Again, what to get depends on what kinds of things you need or want or think you want to do, and when you want to do them. And that pesky thing called a budget...

JKJ

[Todd Mason-Darnell]

I have a Kioti dealer about 45 min from me.
What made you buy the Kioti over another brand?

We were looking at Deere, Kubota and Kioti (basically the three brands within 1 hour). I had done my research and from what I could tell, all three were about equal in quality. Ultimately, the decision came down to the dealership.

We were looking in the 30 hp range. The Deere guy kept only showing me 40-50 hp tractors at a significant higher price point. The Kubota guy (who was one of the owners) was a racist a-hole (he was actually kept trying to tell me ethnic jokes).

The Kioti guys were great. They talked me through what I was primary going to do (bush hogging, light property work and road maintenance). They offered to sell me a larger tractor, but recommended the size that I bought (as in all things, I would mind a bigger tractor, but really don't need it). My wife went separately from me. They walked her through a bunch of the features of the different tractors, had her drive different ones. They treated her with respect and did not patronize her (she drives the tractor almost as much as I do).

In terms of quality, I have not had any issues with the Kioti (just routine maintenance-it is shed kept), but I only have 400 hours on it and it is the only the tractor I have ever owned.

I would highly recommend getting a front end loader (FEL). With a couple of hooks welded on the bucket and some chains, it is the most useful tractor tool you can own. Aside from moving material, I use it to pull, yank, and haul all sorts of stuff. Using the FEL and a strap is how I moved the pallet with table saw into the shop.

In terms of other implements, I have a box blade, dual beveled box blade ( aka land plane--best tool for road work), bush hog, finish mower, and a rake.

Lots guys swear by their grapples, but I do not do a lot of brush clearing, so it would not be used often (we have 30 acres and my wife has horses).

I would like a back hoe, but the $5-8K price tag makes me pucker up.

[Tom M King]

Todd's post made me think that it might be worthwhile to post about chain hooks on buckets for those that might not know. There are two basic types of chain hooks. One lets the chain slide through it, and the other grabs one link. A 3/8" grab hook is what I like on a tractor bucket. It will grab either a 3/8", or 5/16" chain. Slice the back flat with whatever your method of cutting metal is, and weld it to the top center of the bucket. That leaves it out of the way when not needed, but lets you get a little extra reach when moving something by tilting the bucket. I don't know why a chain hook is not standard issue with any loader bucket. Chain hooks also come in different strength ratings.

Picture shows location of chain hook on bucket that the log tongs are hooked to.

[Jerome Stanek]

We have a Mahindra dealer near us and they seem to be nice tractors I have a Ford and a Kabota the Ford has a front end loader and the gearing that I need for my flail mower. The Kabota is an old one it is either to slow or to fast to use the flail mower. It does co other duties though.

[Keith Outten]

I have a Deere 4105 diesel I purchased new. IMO a tractor without a Front End Loader is like a car without an engine. I have several implements but the FEL is used 90% of the time. Anytime I have lifting chores to do I head for the barn and get the tractor. I also have an 84" wide tiller for my garden that gets the job done so quick its shameful. I have a box blade, bush hog, landscape rake, cultivator, and a shrub bucket I use to move small trees and for small trenching jobs. I built my own carryall and have yet to finish a pulverizer I started working on a couple years ago. I also built a set of brush forks for my first tractor that I gave to my Son in law with the tractor. Now I need to build another brush fork for my Deere, after I finish the pulveriser

[Dave Lehnert]

Thanks to everyone for the info.
I now have a better idea what I want.

[Dave Cav]

I had two tractors at my previous place, to maintain 7.5 acres of Pacific Northwest woods. We also had a 1000 feet of driveway, and a mile and a half of private road that the neighbors shared maintenance duties on. I had an older (late 70s/early 80s Mitsubishi 16 HP 4WD and a New Holland TC 30. Both had loaders, and I had all the usual attachments, plus a backhoe for the NH. The backhoe attachment was built onto a heavy subframe so it didn't stress the tractor, but it was HEAVY. As for my experience, if you read Perry's post upthread, he pretty well sums it up. If I had to do it all over again on that size property, I would get a skid steer instead of a compact tractor.

I'm on one acre now, and my tractor requirements are virtually non existent, but I will admit I have been looking at the little Mahindra tractors at the dealership down the road.

[Ronald Blue]

You've received lot's of good advice. I can tell you the Yanmar engine is first rate. I have a Cub Cadet/Yanmar 32 HP FWA with loader, box scraper, and conventional rear blade. One thing I like about it over most others is the 3 speed hydro. Low has all the power you need for the toughest task and allows creeping along at a snails pace if needed. 2nd is a good utility gear and while you can do some heavier work with it it also would be good for mowing or similar duties. 3rd gear isn't going to do much work but it travels at 13 mph if you need to travel any distance. I have zero problems filling the loader with dirt or rock. I intend to get a tiller in the near future as we are in process of building a new home and a lot of landscaping will need to be done. A backhoe attachment would be nice but I probably won't invest in one. I looked into "gray market" at one point and they just made me a little worried that parts my be difficult to obtain. Ironically the founder of Rural King was from about 20 miles away from where I currently live. I think they are a solid company. Ask to talk to other owners if possible. Good luck.

[Tom M King]

My first tractor was a 32 or 35 hp (don't remember exactly, since it's been decades ago). There is a big difference between a 35 hp, and a 25 hp tractor. I really haven't spent much time running compact tractors. Either will move dirt, but if you want to shape dirt, bigger is better. I built a state spec 1/8 mile road with the 70 hp '79 John Deere in the picture above, and a MF 115 hp 4wd tractor, for a little real estate development I did.

I started with the 35 hp in 1980, but it would stall pulling a loaded box blade. Then I'd have to lift to dump some, and take extra time leveling the hump. It was probably ten years later that I bought that John Deere. I built our horse farm with that tractor. It will not only pull a 7' full box blade, but dirt will spill over the top if you take too big of a bite to start with. It will also take a nice cut with a grading blade for shaping crowns on roads, and cutting ditches.

A grading blade with a tailwheel is almost as good as a motor grader.

[Ronald Blue]

My first tractor was a 32 or 35 hp (don't remember exactly, since it's been decades ago). There is a big difference between a 35 hp, and a 25 hp tractor. I really haven't spent much time running compact tractors. Either will move dirt, but if you want to shape dirt, bigger is better. I built a state spec 1/8 mile road with the 70 hp '79 John Deere in the picture above, and a MF 115 hp 4wd tractor, for a little real estate development I did.

I started with the 35 hp in 1980, but it would stall pulling a loaded box blade. Then I'd have to lift to dump some, and take extra time leveling the hump. It was probably ten years later that I bought that John Deere. I built our horse farm with that tractor. It will not only pull a 7' full box blade, but dirt will spill over the top if you take too big of a bite to start with. It will also take a nice cut with a grading blade for shaping crowns on roads, and cutting ditches.

A grading blade with a tailwheel is almost as good as a motor grader.

I don't think an 80 HP tractor is going to be needed or even very useful for 2-1/2 acres. If you haven't ran a a FWA tractor then you should try one. I can tell you the difference between a 2WD and a FWA tractor is nothing less than remarkable. I know from running both that the things you can do with FWA vs 2WD are significant. Under perfect conditions (dry solid ground) a larger 2WD will probably accomplish more. But the conditions we have here currently there is no comparison. You fill the loader bucket full of dirt or rock and start across the soft mucky soil conditions we have here at the moment and the front end will sink on the 2WD and there you sit. Empty the loader of most or all it's contents if you want to get out. Maybe that's not true with your rocky conditions but here in the corn belt it's the way it is. With the front wheels pulling you power across all but the worst of conditions. If it's bad enough it won't matter. I'm not discounting what you've accomplished with your tractor. It's documented that under perfect conditions the same tractor in 2WD vs FWA are virtually the same. Once the conditions deteriorate the advantage of FWA is huge. Around here there are very few tractors sold without it. But back to the OP query he is looking at probably a sub compact or a small compact. RK is made by TYM which also makes and owns the Branson line. I think the support is there long term. The price seems very good.

[Tom M King]

Ronald, You're quite right that a 4w would be better than a 2wd. For any size acreage, I'd still rather have a 35hp category1 tractor, than a compact.

When I bought that 2wd tractor, it was 11 years old, and I bought it for not many more dollars than I sold the 35hp MF for. In the little over 3,000 hours that I've put on it, in the 28 years that I've been running it, I've gotten it stuck once. We have some of all conditions here too, but I have no reason to want to run it when the ground is soft. The time I got it stuck was on a grassy area, where the grass is on top of sand, next to the sand on the beach. I forgot to lock up both drive wheels, one wheel spun a little bit, and it turned the sand underneath it into quick sand. I could have pushed it out with the bucket, but didn't want to tear the ground up, so I used the bigger tractor.

This tractor will either pull something out that's stuck, or pull it in two.

Just as an example of what you can buy used tractors for, I bought this tractor at an auction in 1999 for $7500, and all it needed was an air conditioning compressor. It's sitting out in front of the mechanic shop, getting it ready to go before the pastures need clipping when Spring gets here. I have less total purchase price tied up in these two tractors than a new, major brand name compact costs.

[Jim Becker]

Tom, I'm not sure what the context is for your "35hp Category 1" tractor, but if the Cat 1 is referring to the 3PT, even the Sub-compacts are Cat 1 3pt.

That said, for small acreage/estate management, don't underestimate the capability of these smaller machines and also consider that many folks also need to garage them. Size does matter when it comes to those of us with smaller properties. But as always, the job(s) that the machine will be expected to do certainly factors in to the choice.