The thing that always amazes me about threads like this is the belligerence and persistence of crusty old coots arguing AGAINST safety methods and guards.
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The thing that always amazes me about threads like this is the belligerence and persistence of crusty old coots arguing AGAINST safety methods and guards.
Cry "Havoc," and let slip the dogs of bench.
I was socially distant before it was cool.
A little authority corrupts a lot.
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I can't wait for the new software where we get the ability to thank for posts.Originally Posted by Steve H Graham
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Apparently the injury that started this discussion is kind of old now. A thread started on a regional forum I also participate in recently and I found it interesting. It went a different direction, however. This one seems to have degenerated into a discussion of blade guards.
A couple of points I think are worth considering. First, if you check SawStops frequently asked questions, they state you can get seriously injured with their saw if the velocity of your body part's movement into the blade is high enough. They do not comment on the blade design in that FAQ. The blade stops in 5 milli seconds or less. 0.005 seconds or less. It travels about 1/3 of a revolution in .005 seconds. How much of you it touches is dependent on how fast your body part if moving. Moving faster, like if a board breaks or knocks your hand into the blade, will result in a more serious injury.
This is speculation but I do not believe the blade design impacts the speed of stopping more than 1 milli second. I doubt putting the blade on backward would increase the stoppage time more than a couple milli seconds. The force the spring applies to the aluminum block is something like 1000 lbs. It's like swinging a soft aluminum hammer into the blade. That blade is stopping quickly regardless of the blade design. The fact that blade design is not even mentioned in their comment about extent of injury indicates to me that it is a secondary factor.
I have not purchased a SawStop saw yet but I probably will within the next year. I've never been cut by my table saw in 40+ years of hobby usage. I have been cut by other tools when I did something stupid or got tired. I am a little concerned that I get tired more quickly at 62 than I did previously. I like the fact that the SawStop blade guard seems well designed including being able to be easily removed and replaced. It will need to be for me to use it.
To me the key message of the injury is that a SawStop does not always stop us from getting stitches. We still need to be careful. But if we screw up, the injury will be less.
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I thought about this long and hard for many years. (I’ve even considered a saw stop) I came to conclusion
Who benefits from A saw stop? 100 hours equals 100% anything less than 100% buy saw stop!
What is their level of professional training?
What is their level of comfort?
What is their level of respect for the machine?
What is there a level of training with guards and procedures?
What is their level of reaction materials?
What is their level of fear respect ?
What is their comfort level of pinch and throw body placement? 6 inches is not enough!
How often are they practising the above per year?
Last edited by Matt Mattingley; 07-15-2018 at 2:10 AM.
Member
I had intentions of buying a sawstop for the safety aspect of it,,,and I believe that is the main reason most do buy them,,,but there is a lot of good saws that do the same as a saw stop,,,and for the price that you pay for it to start with,,reguardless of what blade you have on it,it should stop the blade,,,,i think for the price of the saw,, it is over rated,,,as prove in this thread
Member
The safety feature is one of the reasons, not necessarily the main reason. Imagine who would spend $3000 on a SawStop that had the best finger saving technology but
did not offer excellent cutting performance
included mediocre tolerances
was supported by poor customer service
did not have the option of excellent dust collection, and
did not offer the option of one of the best mobile bases money could buy.
I would not have.
Simon
Guest
Please, whoever brainwashed you, I need their number.
Member
I think it is a 1800 number....For the record, I have not needed to call them for service to my saw; I go to their website now and then.
Simon
Guest
Only one machine will protect you from tools, material, and people in the shop.
I wonder if a company could afford the costs from misfires on something like a shaper? A big block of aluminum slamming into a $600 head isn't cheap like a $100 blade. Never mind the build quality it would take to bring that much mass to a halt without damaging the machine itself.
What about equipment that you're already maimed before you even reach the cutter?
Member
There is some big industrial equipment which will brake hard and fast from a high speed.... But you generally have to replace a lot of parts when you activate that sort of emergency brake mechanism.... It's an expensive proposition... But it's a whole lot less costly than somebody loosing limbs (or worse)....
in general - only an idiot would stick their hand into it to see if it works. There are procedures for challenging the system which won't grenade the system....
Last edited by John C Cox; 07-18-2018 at 7:40 PM.
Member
Panic-stopping an MRI machine can cost a quarter million. I was sent to deliver metal-cased PCs to the MRI lab. Nobody did 2+2, and I walked in from the summer sun wearing shades, lost and unable to really see. When I felt something weird I decided to back up, and the only cost to the whole thing was destroying the hard drives.
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It does amaze me how one tool, that doesn't get much use in a cabinet shop, creates so much content.
As far as it not developing complacency, you are full of it and haven't paid attention to humans. Anything you do that pads you from the reality of consequences will make people more complacent. One of the fanatics years ago asked would I ride a motorcycle differently with a helmet on? Of course I do. Riding three blocks in shorts, sunglasses, and flip flops turns me into the world's most careful motorcyclist. Put me in full leathers with an ambulance on the side of a track, ready to vacuum up my parts, and my survival instincts drop to nothing.
Member
The reason why humans have become the most powerful species on the planet...Is they have the ability to reason! No other animal possesses these traits to this extent. Ultimate power, ultimately corrupts.
So let’s just put the two reds together.
I know this machine will cut my fingers off in milli seconds. I have the power and money to buy a Machine that will not hurt me. I have the power and money to not have to take any trainings courses. I have the power and money to disregard/remove any safety guards provided by the manufacturer.
Tonight I took all the guards off my saw. I raised the blade to 5 inches above the table(18”blade) then cut a solid piece of cherry, using only a short fence, 5/4 thick. 7.2” wide rip, 29” long, with no push sticks, no riving knife, no safety glasses, no dust collection, No SS. I did Percision dress the fence & table sides of the board to take out any rocking.
It was a pretty cool adrenaline rush. I didn’t know the ends of my fingers had sweat glands until I looked at the board after the 20 Second cut.
For crap sake don’t remove your guards. And use your ability to reason.
Last edited by Matt Mattingley; 07-18-2018 at 11:36 PM.
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Oh Matty, apples and horseshoes.
Contributor
These threads never change and we hear the same things every time.
The electronics will fail....
One becomes complacent...
It is safer without guards....
One can pay attention 100% of the time...
One has so much experience that they never will get hurt....
Time to move on as people will not change their minds.. as I have said before, if you want a Sawstop then get one and if you hate them don't get one.
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