Sawstop Injury I didn't think this could happen.

[jack forsberg]

You have what would be a called a SAW-GO

For new people coming in to my shop as workers I actually ask them if they’ve been trained on The Saw Stop . If they say yes they’re not allowed in my shop. I got too many saws that do have gaurds . Sorry but stay in school or get some real traning. That is unless the only machine you wish to use in your career is a tablesaw.

Jack does not own any flash sensing safety devices in his shop and does not wish to put his wiener Anywhere near a swirling blade now or in the for seeable future .

[Simon MacGowen]

For new people coming in to my shop as workers I actually ask them if they’ve been trained on The Saw Stop . If they say yes they’re not allowed in my shop. .

Since most future cabinet saws will all have the finger saving technology as a standard feature just like the riving knife (sawstop patents expiring), future shop owners will be hard pressed to find new people who have gone through carpentry or woodworking programs with no "sawstop" experience. Of course, if they are interested in just anyone, there will be no shortage of unskilled labor. I know when I contract out a job, I only look for contractors who are skilled.

This is the same reason why Google gives its education programs free to schools to ensure all future kids are capable of using its products but not necessarily others. No free lunch.

I have been clearly told that a couple semi-community entities had closed down their woodworking programs because they could not afford a SawStop but could not afford the insurance costs either.

Simon

[Robert Engel]

For new people coming in to my shop as workers I actually ask them if they’ve been trained on The Saw Stop . If they say yes they’re not allowed in my shop. I got too many saws that do have gaurds . Sorry but stay in school or get some real traning. That is unless the only machine you wish to use in your career is a tablesaw.

Jack does not own any flash sensing safety devices in his shop and does not wish to put his wiener Anywhere near a swirling blade now or in the for seeable future .

I think Jack brings up a valid point, that being, the SS is only one machine.

Safety is more of an attitude, an overall state of mind approaching power machinery.

Having just one machine that will save you from a mistake isn't really good enough, is it?

[Simon MacGowen]

Having just one machine that will save you from a mistake isn't really good enough, is it?

Yes, it is not good enough. In fact, the current no. of woodworkers who can enjoy the sawstop technology is not good enough even though it is more than 10 years old. I think the sooner the patents expire the better, so more brands of saws can be made and bought with such safety improvement.

My view on shop safety is that it should be progressive. That is what worked in the past should be improved if it can be technically and economically done. SawStop is an example. When the patent protection expires, competition, insurance consideration, etc. will lead to the standardization of the finger saving technology as part of a saw. Economies of scale will reduce the cost of ownership too. Like it or not, consumer and market expectations will be the driver. Bosch saw that future market.

Finger saving technology has now been applied to the meat cutting machines (they are bandsaws to a woodworker). The tablesaw should not be the only machine that we need to improve its safety record, of course, but it is the woodworking machine that causes the most (more serious) injuries and so naturally it was the first machine that got the first fix. I am hoping the parent company of Festool will do R&D to expand the technology into other tools like the mitre saws, etc. One at a time is better than doing nothing. The "finger saves" speak for themselves. I also know radar sensing auto brake systems have saved lives on the highways, even though they did not exist before.

Simon

[jack forsberg]

Since most future cabinet saws will all have the finger saving technology as a standard feature just like the riving knife (sawstop patents expiring), future shop owners will be hard pressed to find new people who have gone through carpentry or woodworking programs with no "sawstop" experience. Of course, if they are interested in just anyone, there will be no shortage of unskilled labor. I know when I contract out a job, I only look for contractors who are skilled.

This is the same reason why Google gives its education programs free to schools to ensure all future kids are capable of using its products but not necessarily others. No free lunch.

I have been clearly told that a couple semi-community entities had closed down their woodworking programs because they could not afford a SawStop but could not afford the insurance costs either.

Simon

Most future cabinet saw will not have saws . Most future cabinet shops will be lights out 24/7 seven robotic. Cabinet saws of themselves are relics of the classic machines in a modern shop . Besides not all woodworking is cabinets . If saw stop has set itself up as an educator It just further Devalues A proper training and apprenticeship. Training that I might add that was developed through the industry with all due consideration. Just in my lifetime I’ve seen the education system completely dismantle trades in schools . When I grew up I was advised by counselors in schools that I should not enter into the traides , that I should enter computer science . Trades were four people that were stupid. That’s why Jimmy who was as dumb as a sack a hammer got sent to woodworking to make a lamp. The reason people need saw stop today is because we’ve sent all the idiots to woodworking. Fact of the matter is you need brains .


881CA864-6A14-47EE-8C83-2BBAD4EA64A4.jpg

Proper training is severely lacking in North America. This is why saw stop is not sweeping Europe. Health and safety executives in the EU is far better than our education system.


Basic safe work practices are highly lacking in North America. Their reliance on the safety technology has been seriously considered adequate buy some.
The fact is it’s pretty basic stuff that just seriously has not been passed on . In North America we are being led by the blind on YouTube
http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/wis16.pdf

[Roger Marty]

Most future cabinet saw will not have saws . Most future cabinet shops will be lights out 24/7 seven robotic. Cabinet saws of themselves are relics of the classic machines in a modern shop . Besides not all woodworking is cabinets . If saw stop has set itself up as an educator It just further Devalues A proper training and apprenticeship. Training that I might add that was developed through the industry with all due consideration. Just in my lifetime I’ve seen the education system completely dismantle trades in schools . When I grew up I was advised by counselors in schools that I should not enter into the traides , that I should enter computer science . Trades were four people that were stupid. That’s why Jimmy who was as dumb as a sack a hammer got sent to woodworking to make a lamp. The reason people need saw stop today is because we’ve sent all the idiots to woodworking. Fact of the matter is you need brains .

Hilarious. I'm a computer scientist and hobbyist woodworker, and probability theory (and actuarial science) strongly factored into my personal decision to buy a SawStop.

[Simon MacGowen]

Most future cabinet saw will not have saws . Most future cabinet shops will be lights out 24/7 seven robotic.

Robotic takeovers have been predicted many times by many people before you for many industries. That day may come for cabinet shops, but that won't happen until many future generations of shop owners have experienced real problems of finding new workers who have never had any "sawstop" experience...if they insist on welcoming only people who never touch a "sawstop."

My guess: Complete robotic takeovers in 200 - 300 years; mass production of "sawstop" like cabinet saws in 20 - 30 years.

Simon

[Carlos Alvarez]

Sawstops will become common in under ten years, and nearly full robotics in under 20.

[Simon MacGowen]

Sawstops will become common in under ten years, and nearly full robotics in under 20.

SawStop has become common already; it is NA's #1 selling cabinet saw.

What is full robotics in under 20?


Simon

[Simon MacGowen]

In North America we are being led by the blind on YouTube

I do not have any in-depth knowledge of the EU education system and its safety practice (just having used an EU slider a few times doesn't count, does it?) to form any opinion about the sale of SawStop in Europe. But I agree with you that, judging from the unbelievable comments people made in some of the woodworking videos, many people (outside NA as well) are being led by unqualified and unsafe youtube woodworkers.

Simon

[jack forsberg]

Sawstops will become common in under ten years, and nearly full robotics in under 20.

If not sooner :::;::::::::::::

[David Kumm]

The technology will need to progress to impact other machines and larger commercial saws to become a given in commercial shops. Cabinet saws are pretty limited as to volume and 10" blades are designed more for hobby or specialty use than the more traditionally sized 14-20" blade machines. When true industrial machines have the SS technology or competing versions of the same, the game will change. Dave

[Roger Marty]

Sawstops will become common in under ten years, and nearly full robotics in under 20.

Do not underestimate the cost effectiveness of human labor for some industries. I'm not claiming that humans will remain more cost effective for cabinet shops in 20 years, but I am familiar with a large-scale industrial operation that looked strongly at robotic automation and found that paying humans $15/hour remained far more cost effective. And go read Elon Musk's recent interview about Tesla's attempts to fully automate the Model3 production.

[Carlos Alvarez]

Do not under-estimate the power of Luddites and people who spread fear and doubt about computers and automation. Without them, we'd be much farther along already in many automations.

[Roger Marty]

Do not under-estimate the power of Luddites and people who spread fear and doubt about computers and automation. Without them, we'd be much farther along already in many automations.

Hey dude, PhD in Computer Science here with a healthy dose of what's happening in state-of-the-art Machine Learning. I'm no luddite.