What would you Do ? Shoddy contractor

[Neil Gaskin]

I wantTo be clear upfront it looks like you got a crappy job. It does not Look professional or well executed. In the interest of full disclosure I’m a contractor and have a skewed and biased opinion.

disclaimers aside. I would let this go. I’m not suggesting you pay the man but I am suggesting the small claims court etc. idea is fruitless and a waste of time. It’s 500 bucks worth of material and some time to start over. Life’s too short To turn this into a large matter. Even if you “win” You will have spent more time and energy Then this can ever be worth.

Putting my contractors hat on for a moment I will say that some of what I read in your original post sent up red flags as a difficult client. I’m not suggesting that it’s your fault the work was so shotty But there is a good chance that you made it worse. Starting out and watching 30 feet away, making several comments, worried about 2 inch on center difference for post placement for this project, etc. probably just aggravated and frustrated more than anything. People do not perform the best under those circumstances. It may have been best To go inside and let them fail on their own. At that point they probably wouldn’t have been so aggravated and you may have had more chance of resolution to your satisfaction.

[Frank Pratt]

I wantTo be clear upfront it looks like you got a crappy job. It does not Look professional or well executed. In the interest of full disclosure I’m a contractor and have a skewed and biased opinion.

disclaimers aside. I would let this go. I’m not suggesting you pay the man but I am suggesting the small claims court etc. idea is fruitless and a waste of time. It’s 500 bucks worth of material and some time to start over. Life’s too short To turn this into a large matter. Even if you “win” You will have spent more time and energy Then this can ever be worth.

Putting my contractors hat on for a moment I will say that some of what I read in your original post sent up red flags as a difficult client. I’m not suggesting that it’s your fault the work was so shotty But there is a good chance that you made it worse. Starting out and watching 30 feet away, making several comments, worried about 2 inch on center difference for post placement for this project, etc. probably just aggravated and frustrated more than anything. People do not perform the best under those circumstances. It may have been best To go inside and let them fail on their own. At that point they probably wouldn’t have been so aggravated and you may have had more chance of resolution to your satisfaction.

Very good comments. Especially the last paragraph. Nothing is worse on a job than having a customer breathing down your neck & telling you how to do it. It not only pissed people off, but gets them flustered & more likely to make mistakes.

A more reasonable approach would be to leave them to it & then do a progress inspection once they're a few hours into it. At that point deficiencies can be noted & corrected.

[Perry Hilbert Jr]

Two years ago, we hired a contractor to tile a back splash over the kitchen counter in a new house. We got his name from the builder, but made a side contact with this bozo to do the backsplash. He showed up three weeks late on a Sunday in an old two door car with some tools in his trunk. I had been to the show room to hire the guy and saw a nice work truck outside. Beautiful showroom. The top was to be bull nose tile, he did not have it. Said he would be back with that. Two weeks later he shows on a Saturday and no bull nose tile and he is cutting the tile freehand with a angle dgrinder., He tears out trim under the kitchen window and says the tile will go all the way up to the window sill. I frown, he says it will look good. The grout he used was like cement mixed with fish bowl gravel. The grit kept coming out of the grout and falling on the counter top. Three weeks later I call to ask when he is going to finish, and he gives me a song and dance about his daughter being sick in the hospital. He shows up a week lateer, while I am away and spreads some more grout over the stuff and then announces that the job is finished and we owe the contract price. he got nasty and threatening with my wife, she called the police and told them about how he started screaming at her and she wanted him gone. The police officer made him leave. There was no bull nose edge, the grout was still falling out of the spaces between the tile and the tile was not finished up to and around the window.. He calls me and starts yelling. I told him is he ever sets foot on our property again, I will turn the dogs on him. He starts badgering the Mrs. by phone and she mails a payment but marks the check, under protest, job not finished. He tried to cash the check and the bank refused, because of what she wrote. I filed a complaint with the4 home improvement licensing board and it turned out, despite the truck and fancy showroom, he has no license. They shut him down. Six months later I go by the show room, and he is there outside talking to somebody and the truck has a different first name but the same last name on it. I hired a different contractor and had him tear out the old tile and do it over. Paid him $100 more than the contract with the first guy, but the job is beautiful and no grit falling out of the grout. It is finished up to the window and cabinets, etc. Only took him a day and a half.

[Marc Jeske]

I generally agree w you guys on the non hovering.

Reason I did it was because of their attitude.. very uncommunicative, harried, hurried, w a disrespectful air .

If I would have had other contractor available, I may have told them to leave.

Heck, I didn't even know they were coming that day, if ever.

Last I talked to him was on phone 3 days ago.. all he said was he would talk to his partner.

Bottom line is you guys weren't there, you don't know the whole situation.

So, I do understand your thoughts.

Sad part is if they only would have relaxed and took a little more time.. cared about their work, used their tape measure and level more, it could be totally different now.

Marc

[Marc Jeske]

Perry said - "He tears out trim under the kitchen window and says the tile will go all the way up to the window sill. I frown, he says it will look good"

Yup, that's how it was here... "Check it when we're done..you will be happy"


Marc

[Perry Hilbert Jr]

Where you are at now....

Ask a favor and have him write a letter on Letterhead, sign, and seal it. Now you have official legal proof... Keep it in a folder with pictures just in case...

That letter may be ok to send to the guy as a reason for non-payment. But unless your state has very, very different rules of evidence, a letter written by a so called expert will be excluded as hearsay. Hearsay is any out of court statement, written or verbal, introduced for the truth of what it contains. Hearsay evidence in general is not admissible. There are many exceptions to the hearsay rule, for instance for medical records or business records certified as accurate the the custodian of records. Or a statement by a party to the litigation which is against interest. In Pennsylvania, a repair invoice for repair of damage is admissible in small claims court, but a letter that work is not up to par, by an engineer or any one else is not. Your engineer buddy would need to come to court. Now whether his license is still current would go to his credibility and whether he is aware of current standards. A well known contractor with an ongoing construction business would be a better choice as an expert. Your expert would have to: 1) testify as to his qualifications, 2) that he is aware of the standards and practices in the industry 3) You would need to request that the court accept him as an expert witness 4) He would have to be accepted as an expert by the court, 5) give a detailed factual basis of his examination of the project and pictures and 6) that is his opinion as a professional (whatever) that the work done was below standards, 7) why it was below standards and 8) within a reasonable degree of probability, what it would take to correct the work, 9) that is is familiar with the costs in the community for that type of work and 10) what it would take/cost to correct the work done.

There are very specific steps and procedures for such evidence. You must lay the foundation for the opinion evidence or a court will not hear it. There is a reason for these steps that goes back centuries to make sure court cases are tried fairly and with logic. (seems ironic with some decisions) I practiced law for 45 years. I had fun litigating cases in courtrooms. I tried cases in Va, DC, MD, PA and DE. The rules of evidence and procedure are like a very complicated chess game, involving strategy and preparation. Yes you need to get your evidence in line now. But understand there are even some simple hoops to even using the photos. 1) who took them, 2) when and where taken, 3) that they fairly and accurately show the way the job was left on x date, 4) then you can move them into evidence 5) then hand the picture to the bailiff to give to the judge, or hand it up for the judge 6)then point out the flaws in the work shown in the photos. In some courts you must have a copy for each party, as well as the judge and the photo might have to be numbered and have an evidence sticker before you can even bring it up. Small claims courts have some streamlined procedures, but they still follow the rules in general. For instance in some courts if you fail to move the photo into evidence, the judge can't consider what was in the photo

[Roger Feeley]

Marc,

I agree with the posters who say that documentation is key. This will probably end up in court. Maybe you can get away with small claims.

Going forward, it seems to me that there is a labor shortage where you live and that you can offer some valuable knowledge. Could you find a couple of coachable kids and hire them? Maybe you can work a deal where you teach them what you know and they do the work at a reasonable price using a combination of your tools and rentals. Then they could go out and compete with the folks that did such a poor job. That might be your ultimate revenge.