Dimensioning 10/4 lumber for bench build...How to go about it?

[Warren Mickley]

Just watched an interesting video on traditional french polishing. The instructor (sorry, can’t remember his name...1000 videos on french polishing), claimed that original french polishing was done by first burnishing the wood with a straw bundle, grain was filled with wax, and then polished out with a spit shine.

His point, as may be related to BLO and other historical furniture finishes, is that furniture builders back then needed to generate volume to make a living. Quick, easy, fast finishes were desired. Doesn’t mean even they believed it was the most protective or durable, just looked reasonably good.

These historic finishes tend to produce a reasonably good look with a minimal amount of trial and error. As a hobbyist, I’ve graduated to these, only for that reason. I have no doubt modern finishes are more durable.

The term French polish originated in the early 19th century and referred to polishing with a spirit varnish (alcohol solvent), either with shellac or a shellac with other gums dissolved in alcohol. It is not a French term.

Andre Roubo, writing in Paris in the mid 18th century mentions wax, linseed oil, spirit varnishes, and oil varnishes.

[Phil Mueller]

That’s what I’ve always considered it to be. I found the video. The guy’s name is Don Williams (Furniture Conservator and Scholar) and throughout the video refers to “the liturature”...but never names it (IIRC) in the video. Claims that the method he is demonstrating would have been used for high style furniture in France and throuout Europe...and, in fact, claims they were not very complimentary of spirit based finishes. What do I know. Another guy on YouTube. Although he does have some credibility as a senior conservator at the Smithsonian.

He’s not claiming it to be the best finish in the world, just that this was the “original” french polish.
If you’re inclined to take a look (Don Williams on Traditional French Polish), I’d be interested in your opinion.

[Brian Holcombe]

Just for photo reference, this is a work from Chateau de Versailles, in the King's apartment. I took these photos with a cell phone (not a current one) so forgive the color distortion, but the works glow brightly. I was immediately impressed by the finish, but the tour guides did not provide information to detail the finishes for furniture works. I'm glad to learn here of what these finishes may consist of, as I had assumed them to be shellac.

I don't believe we were allowed photos of the roll top desk which is most famous.

[steven c newman]

There is no room to use it in the shop. I use it to cut larger items down to size, so they can fit into the shop.

There is a painted piece of plywood attached to the top....sheds water very nicely. I can easily remove that as needed.
SDC15807.jpg
When it was brand new.
saw bench.jpg
While in use last year, when I needed plywood for the back of a Pantry cupboard Project. When I was done, that blue tub was placed back on top of the saw bench.

Have sanded down rusty items on it, have painted cleaned up items on it...stood on it to change the light bulb in the back porch light.

Never added a finish....never will...

[Stanley Covington]

There is no room to use it in the shop. I use it to cut larger items down to size, so they can fit into the shop.

There is a painted piece of plywood attached to the top....sheds water very nicely. I can easily remove that as needed.
SDC15807.jpg
When it was brand new.
saw bench.jpg
While in use last year, when I needed plywood for the back of a Pantry cupboard Project. When I was done, that blue tub was placed back on top of the saw bench.

Have sanded down rusty items on it, have painted cleaned up items on it...stood on it to change the light bulb in the back porch light.

Never added a finish....never will...

Thanks for the pictures. A nice useful sawbench.

Stan

[Prashun Patel]

No more personal attacks, direct or veiled.

I butchered this thread with edits, but there it is.

[ernest dubois]

No more personal attacks, direct or veiled.

I butchered this thread with edits, but there it is.

It this to say we are not reading what was written but a moderated version?

[Warren Mickley]

Thanks for posting the picture from Versailles, Brian. It is kind of gaudy, but I still find it touching how much care and artistry went into this furniture. I would expect this stuff was finished with a spirit varnish. It was perhaps brushed on and abraded with rottenstone or similar for a polished finish. Or it coould be French polished with the spirit varnish.

Early spirit varnishes tended to have several different resins. Roubo's formula for fine varnish had three resins: sandarac, mastic and elemi. Sandarac was known for being extremely clear and it could be that shellac was too tinted at that time. Today these other resins are much more expensive than shellac and are used only in special work.

French polish is a spirit varnish applied with a pad in many very thin coats. Some extend the term to all solvent release varnishes that are similarly applied, which I think is fair. Applying wax with a polissoir made of rush is a polish and it is a French technique, but I would not call it French polish. A dog panting in July is a hot dog, but you would not put mustard on it.

[Pat Barry]

Just for photo reference, this is a work from Chateau de Versailles, in the King's apartment. I took these photos with a cell phone (not a current one) so forgive the color distortion, but the works glow brightly. I was immediately impressed by the finish, but the tour guides did not provide information to detail the finishes for furniture works. I'm glad to learn here of what these finishes may consist of, as I had assumed them to be shellac.

I don't believe we were allowed photos of the roll top desk which is most famous.

Is the top on that desk leather? It sure looks like it from tje photo. It looks like that desk was in front of a window and saw a 100 years of sunshine without protection. Tje front in the other hand still looks fabulous and I suspect it was in the shade of the top.

[Brian Holcombe]

Thanks for posting the picture from Versailles, Brian. It is kind of gaudy, but I still find it touching how much care and artistry went into this furniture. I would expect this stuff was finished with a spirit varnish. It was perhaps brushed on and abraded with rottenstone or similar for a polished finish. Or it coould be French polished with the spirit varnish.

Early spirit varnishes tended to have several different resins. Roubo's formula for fine varnish had three resins: sandarac, mastic and elemi. Sandarac was known for being extremely clear and it could be that shellac was too tinted at that time. Today these other resins are much more expensive than shellac and are used only in special work.

French polish is a spirit varnish applied with a pad in many very thin coats. Some extend the term to all solvent release varnishes that are similarly applied, which I think is fair. Applying wax with a polissoir made of rush is a polish and it is a French technique, but I would not call it French polish. A dog panting in July is a hot dog, but you would not put mustard on it.

Hah! That last line is something I will have to store for later use.

Thanks Warren, I appreciate the details on the varnish. Under careful inspection I did notice that all of the finishes were in fine shape but I was unsure if it were because they remained in good keeping or if they were restored. The museum staff did mention that they had difficulties reacquiring the furniture pieces over time that had gone missing (after the French Revolution if I remember correctly) so I had assumed at the time that they had been restored and that the finishes might be recent.

[Brian Holcombe]

Is the top on that desk leather? It sure looks like it from tje photo. It looks like that desk was in front of a window and saw a 100 years of sunshine without protection. Tje front in the other hand still looks fabulous and I suspect it was in the shade of the top.

If it's the original leather than it's from 1745, and who knows what it's seen.

[Stanley Covington]

I have always been impressed with this style of furniture, because the metalworker's art dominates everything so entirely. Its like the wood is just there as a place to attach metal.

[ernest dubois]

I have pulled down an old bottle of shellac finish from off the shelf, one I picked up at G.Bachet 19-21 rue Claude Tillier in Paris some years back, and looking at the label I read, Vernis gomme laque, Blonde. It's a good source to follow up on what we call, French Polish, a term dating to 1820 or so from a book written in English by the French ébéniste and pretty clearly referring to shellac having been dissolved in alcohol applied with a rubber in multiple layers, (up to 150). I would be willing to bet this is the finish on old Louis XIV's desk there.

[Warren Mickley]

I have pulled down an old bottle of shellac finish from off the shelf, one I picked up at G.Bachet 19-21 rue Claude Tillier in Paris some years back, and looking at the label I read, Vernis gomme laque, Blonde. It's a good source to follow up on what we call, French Polish, a term dating to 1820 or so from a book written in English by the French ébéniste and pretty clearly referring to shellac having been dissolved in alcohol applied with a rubber in multiple layers, (up to 150). I would be willing to bet this is the finish on old Louis XIV's desk there.

As I mentioned above, the French polish term seems to have originated in the early 1800's. There are lots of references 1810 to 1840, but I would be very interested if you found a reference that predated say 1790. Or if you found reference to this type of finishing in Diderot or Roubo (mid-18th century)

On the other hand, it would not surprise me to find that this 18th century writing table was finished with a spirit varnish and that it was later spruced up with some small amount French polishing on top. When people trumpet the superiority of modern finishes, you have to wonder if they have experience with repair and renewal of these finishes.

[ernest dubois]

Just vagueness in terms of references, shellac known in Europe from the 16th century and then the early 19th century mentions of the specific method. But no, nothing specific for that time frame just the thought that during the time of LouisXIV the crafts are flourishing and innovative and it can be seen as sort of a pinnacle of development. Not that, you know, I'd want to paint too rosy a picture.